I
iLoV3P0ker
Rock Star
Bronze Level
Someone posted rock paper scissors as an example earlier.
If you play GTO in RPS it's impossible to win or lose, you will always break even against any other strategy.
I understand GTO does win in poker when your opponent deviates from it, because poker is much more complicated than RPS.
This somehow feels true, but I don't know why or how this works.
What I don't understand is where GTO makes that profit.
Pre-flop it sorta makes sense, if you play too many hands you'll have to fold, call or bluff too often somewhere in the hand to make up for that.
If you play too few hands you're automatically not claiming some of the pots that you should have.
So let's say we're at a table where everyone plays perfect GTO pre-flop.
Only our imaginary hero players perfect GTO post-flop. The other players are just pressing some random buttons.
Our entire game should be perfectly balanced as to not be exploitable right?
So when we value bet, if villains react to the value bet randomly often enough, shouldn't it balance out in the end?
Same for bluffs?
Some of them will call/fold too often, others will do the opposite.
Won't it just balance out like it does in RPS?
I know the answer to this is no, it won't. But I don't understand why.
How does playing GTO "force" opponents into making mistakes that are not recoverable by another opponent making the opposite mistake?
As an example, say we get to the river and we make a GTO bet, we would do this exactly the same every time we get into this situation (even if it's a mixed strategy, we'd apply the mixed strategy exactly the same every single time in this exact situation)
Let's say it's GTO for our opponent to call 50% of the time and fold 50% of the time.
If one opponents calls 60% of the time but another calls only 40% of the time.
We haven't won anything then right?
The 10% mistake one opponent makes is countered by the opposite 10% mistake of the other opponent.
(Or the same opponent in a different situation.)
It seems like this should eventually just even out, why is this not the case?
Is this example wrong? Or is it just too simple?
Or am I just thinking about this in a completely wrong way?
Or maybe GTO just "exploits" standard human poker by default?
If you play GTO in RPS it's impossible to win or lose, you will always break even against any other strategy.
I understand GTO does win in poker when your opponent deviates from it, because poker is much more complicated than RPS.
This somehow feels true, but I don't know why or how this works.
What I don't understand is where GTO makes that profit.
Pre-flop it sorta makes sense, if you play too many hands you'll have to fold, call or bluff too often somewhere in the hand to make up for that.
If you play too few hands you're automatically not claiming some of the pots that you should have.
So let's say we're at a table where everyone plays perfect GTO pre-flop.
Only our imaginary hero players perfect GTO post-flop. The other players are just pressing some random buttons.
Our entire game should be perfectly balanced as to not be exploitable right?
So when we value bet, if villains react to the value bet randomly often enough, shouldn't it balance out in the end?
Same for bluffs?
Some of them will call/fold too often, others will do the opposite.
Won't it just balance out like it does in RPS?
I know the answer to this is no, it won't. But I don't understand why.
How does playing GTO "force" opponents into making mistakes that are not recoverable by another opponent making the opposite mistake?
As an example, say we get to the river and we make a GTO bet, we would do this exactly the same every time we get into this situation (even if it's a mixed strategy, we'd apply the mixed strategy exactly the same every single time in this exact situation)
Let's say it's GTO for our opponent to call 50% of the time and fold 50% of the time.
If one opponents calls 60% of the time but another calls only 40% of the time.
We haven't won anything then right?
The 10% mistake one opponent makes is countered by the opposite 10% mistake of the other opponent.
(Or the same opponent in a different situation.)
It seems like this should eventually just even out, why is this not the case?
Is this example wrong? Or is it just too simple?
Or am I just thinking about this in a completely wrong way?
Or maybe GTO just "exploits" standard human poker by default?