Help with math workbook - % of pot facing reraise

[Jonnycache]

Hi all, new to the forum but really enjoying reading and learning here.

I am a pretty new poker player and am trying hard to learn the math. I'm working through a poker math workbook and am a little stumped on this section--can anyone help explain what I'm doing wrong? Thanks in advance!

This part of the workbook is about calculating implied odds when facing a reraise on the flop. The workbook gives me a scenario with the following:

Scenario: The pot was $60 at the flop. You raise $40. Villain re-raises you $100. You estimate you have 20% equity if you call their raise.

Tasks:
1. Find % of pot - Answer key says this is 56%
2. Find pot odds equity required (to call) - Answer key says this 23%
3. How much more do you need to make (on later streets) to make this a profitable call. - Answer key says this is $40


My question is around Task 1. I can get the math right for the other tasks. The answer key says that the % of pot is 56%, but I get something different.

Here are the steps I am taking:

A. The pot is 100 after my raise of 40. Villain re-raises to $100. This means to call is $60. So, to calculate % of pot, I do 60/(100+100). This gets me 30%. This is way off the answer key's number of 56%

What am I doing wrong?

P.S. If the answer key is wrong, it is wrong for this whole section, because I have the same issue with other problems with the same setup. So I can only assume that I am making a mistake.

 

[Nafor]

I have wrecked my brain by trying to think this but the only solution I am finding possible is an error in the workbook.
Errors are not unheard-of, even in more high standard workbooks outside poker. And if you google poker workbook error you can see that these things happen.

Edit. And welcome to CC :wavey:

 

[PetarT]

Maths is good thing ,but sometime you have to read other players and change strategy .Psychology book about poker helps a lot-read The Biggest Bluf and defiantly your % will go to 70��Good luck

 

[Jonnycache]

I have wrecked my brain by trying to think this but the only solution I am finding possible is an error in the workbook.
Errors are not unheard-of, even in more high standard workbooks outside poker. And if you google poker workbook error you can see that these things happen.

Edit. And welcome to CC :wavey:

Thanks for trying--knowing that it was not just me was helpful. I had googled to see if there was an updated version of the answer key, but hadn't googled much more than that.

You motivated me to search a little more, and I found a video of the workbook creator explaining.

Their math is based on "% of pot[-sized raise]" even though it just says % of pot in the workbook.

I had to look this up for a refresher, but the "pot-sized raise" is a rule/formula where:

Pot-sized raise = (3*original raise) + (original pre-raised pot)

Following this rule means that the villain is always given 2:1 pot odds to call.


So, in the example I posted, a pot-sized raise would have been (40*3) + 60 = 180.

100/180 = 56%.

Headache over, thanks again!

 

[Jonnycache]

Maths is good thing ,but sometime you have to read other players and change strategy .Psychology book about poker helps a lot-read The Biggest Bluf and defiantly your % will go to 70��Good luck

Thanks for recommendation, that one is on my list.

 

[okeedokalee]

The Biggest bluff is definitely a stimulating poker read.
It provides real insight into how some of the top players think.
Players starting out in poker will benefit from the overview provided, the main character is a total beginner.
I also recommend new players read Tommy Angelo's writings. He writes books and has a web site.
The other poker site worth learning from is Gripsed.com. Many good training video on Youtube.

 

[Poker_Mike]

Hi all, new to the forum but really enjoying reading and learning here.

I am a pretty new poker player and am trying hard to learn the math. I'm working through a poker math workbook and am a little stumped on this section--can anyone help explain what I'm doing wrong? Thanks in advance!

This part of the workbook is about calculating implied odds when facing a reraise on the flop. The workbook gives me a scenario with the following:

Scenario: The pot was $60 at the flop. You raise $40. Villain re-raises you $100. You estimate you have 20% equity if you call their raise.

Tasks:
1. Find % of pot - Answer key says this is 56%
2. Find pot odds equity required (to call) - Answer key says this 23%
3. How much more do you need to make (on later streets) to make this a profitable call. - Answer key says this is $40


My question is around Task 1. I can get the math right for the other tasks. The answer key says that the % of pot is 56%, but I get something different.

Here are the steps I am taking:

A. The pot is 100 after my raise of 40. Villain re-raises to $100. This means to call is $60. So, to calculate % of pot, I do 60/(100+100). This gets me 30%. This is way off the answer key's number of 56%

What am I doing wrong?

P.S. If the answer key is wrong, it is wrong for this whole section, because I have the same issue with other problems with the same setup. So I can only assume that I am making a mistake.

Something is missing from the information provided.

At the flop the pot is $60 and you raise $40 - what is the initial flop bet? Because you are raising and then get re-raised.

But from what you describe I agree with you that it is 30%

 

[Jonnycache]

Something is missing from the information provided.

At the flop the pot is $60 and you raise $40 - what is the initial flop bet? Because you are raising and then get re-raised.

But from what you describe I agree with you that it is 30%

Good catch--that is my error. I'm still learning the terminology and was using "raise" in places where "bet" was actually the right word. The workbook uses the word bet for the $40. Then hero faces a raise of $100.

Thanks for burning some brain cells with me.

Now that we have solved why it is 58% (see explanation of "pot-sized raise rule) [3*bet + original pot], I'm curious how many people actually use that rule consistently in their logic/thought process while playing? And do people actually use the % of a pot-size raise as a way to think about their equity requirements? To me it seems like that it would be more practical to go right to pot-odds ratios or % equity needed by simply looking at the amount needed to call and the value in the pot. That way you're using basically the same math as you are when making or facing a bet, which is more common and usually less stressful than facing a raise.

 

[Poker_Mike]

Good catch--that is my error. I'm still learning the terminology and was using "raise" in places where "bet" was actually the right word. The workbook uses the word bet for the $40. Then hero faces a raise of $100.

Thanks for burning some brain cells with me.

Now that we have solved why it is 58% (see explanation of "pot-sized raise rule) [3*bet + original pot], I'm curious how many people actually use that rule consistently in their logic/thought process while playing? And do people actually use the % of a pot-size raise as a way to think about their equity requirements? To me it seems like that it would be more practical to go right to pot-odds ratios or % equity needed by simply looking at the amount needed to call and the value in the pot. That way you're using basically the same math as you are when making or facing a bet, which is more common and usually less stressful than facing a raise.

So this is a Pot Limit game?

My opinion is that in PL you can never truly deny your opponent equity.

Whereas in No Limit you can bet so large that it may never make sense for your opponent to call with only a draw.

So - with an exploitive style of play - I want my opponent to call with bad odds (how else do you get chips in the pot?) - and with PL 2:1 can be good enough for him to call on the flop - even preflop. And the villain might get there to win the pot in the end.

In Pot Limit Omaha you can almost never get a fold on the flop because they think they have so many draws.

How often does the PL rule get used? Every time your opponent says Pot or every time they hit the POT button to bet.

Good luck !

 

[Jonnycache]

Not a pot-limit game -- this is for no limit.

The "pot-sized raise" (as I understand it) is a formula for making a raise that presents your opponent with 2:1 odds. Those are the same odds they would get if you were the original bettor and bet the exact amount in the pot. I called it a rule in the sense that it's a mathematical rule (aka formula or theorem) but not a "game rule".

It does seem a little esoteric, and it doesn't seem super useful in getting to the other answers in this example--but the rest of the workbook is good, so maybe it's just something I need to be familiar with and file away in my head. At some point it might click why this is a particularly useful formula. Maybe there's something truly magic about offering opponents exactly 2:1 odds and I just need to discover it .

 

[Poker_Mike]

When you get done with that workbook (and I like that you are starting with poker math) then take a look at CC's free course - it is pretty good.

Become a Winning Poker Player in 30 Days - CardChat.com™ (cardschat.com)