Game Selection (Day 15 Course Discussion)

Oranaro

Oranaro

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So close to be a legend, but I'll take the A mark, in the last one, I didn't pay attention to the effective stack, and I said to c-bet to 1 time the pot to still have the odds. Well it's the same as shoving, as villain has less than the pot. It's still a mistake, because if the eff stack was 2 times the pot, and betting 1 time the pot, we will encounter a reraise, for which we have to call, but we "lost" our odds, as we would need 44% equity which is still ok, but slightly on the losing side.
 
BetterThanAvgButNotByMuch

BetterThanAvgButNotByMuch

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Day 15 Game Selection- Really has nothing to do with Game Selection like picking tables and tourns but a review of concepts. Collin calls it a "midterm".

Pair of 6s example: small pairs is a fold with 2 raisers because you're not going to hit a set like 90% of the time and you're going to be against an over pair or big drawing hands. You call and miss the set there are likely going to be overcards and most people will have no idea where they are in the hand unless you know your opponents. Like do they play Ace x and if an ace doesn't hit the board will you feel ok going forward to later streets? The 6s example is is another reason why you just can't use math as in implied odds in the example and as Collin says you could get reraised as well after putting in 290.

Scenario: Utg calls, Utg+1 calls you're next to act with the following hands

ATo in middle position is ok shorthanded. You have to be worried about about getting out kicked from the four folks that are next to act with another Ace. Some folks won't play it because of that. Some will raise which is ok if you can get away from an ace hitting the board and the action gets too nasty for you. Collin wants you to raise since its in the raising range or fold, not call.

pocket ducks - you can call and see how the action goes. A raise to isolate is ok but requires you to get the hand to almost heads up and see if a CBet will take it down. Against Ax and no Ace on the board then it usually does except against donks so you also need to know who you're playing against. When they're just calling like that they usually have small pairs but if they're better than average they're folding those utg because at a descent table they're going to facing a raise. Collin wants you to call, if you call then the SB and BB could come along and if you dont hit the set and that not going to happen like 90% of the time then the hand is basically dead but you only give up the 40 chips that is nothing to your 5566 and that's the main point, little risk and big reward if you can avoid a wet board.

K9o Not a strong hand that will get folks in trouble with kicker problems at best. Collin wants you to fold it.

JT example give emphasis on Betting sizing. Like the commentary on the JT, A3, 87 going through the example going over boards and betting sizes. 87 be aware of coordinated board.

ATo with a Utg call and Utg+1 3xBB bet is an easy fold preflop you're going to get out kicked.

Small pair is a fold since if you call you're putting 10% of your stack in the middle with only a 10% chance of hitting a set. and you still have someone to react after you that could be holding a monster and shove so you putting 10% of your stack in the middle without seeing a flop wouldn't be the best idea. Implied odds are what you get from the raisers stack divided by how much to call. So I guess its the raise of 780-150 call gets you to 630 then take that call amount and divide it into their stack of 4383+their raise of 780 so 5000 and that goes in about 5000/630 something like 8 times so 8:1. whatever. In an earlier lesson Collin tells us we need 20:1 odds to call that pair for a set draw. I don't use that.

Not going into the KT and 65 examples but they're donk plays by hero. . UBER EXAMPLE THAT USING MATH ALONE WILL SET YOU UP FOR FAILURE. This is giving away chips when you don't need to regardless of the results. Don't need to go into details

The K3 example makes my tummy upset, really upset. You're putting about 1/3rd your stack at risk on a stupid K3. If you get called I would definitely put that it your notes and look forward to playing HERO again. As the hero if you lose that pot then a lot of folks would try to get back the loss and make more mistakes after mistakes and be out of the tourn or sng within a few hands or be down much lower than where they were at the beginning of this K3 hand. I cringe at this type of poker this is the "new poker" I guess. The A9 example makes zero sense just like the Q5 example. I'm not calling a big chunk of my chips with a stupid Q5. Sorry Collin, I could never play like this. I get you call folks with those hands to get them out of a tourn but it would be for a lot less chips to knock them out. No chart or math could ever convince me of that, its bad donkey poker with high variance. Going to have trouble paying the electricity bill on Q5 Collin. All I hear is Charlie Brown teacher "Waa Waaa Waaa" as Collin goes into the rest of the examples.

Crazy donkfest poker isn't for me. Not a favorite lesson. I like to know who I'm playing and their tendencies and go from there, that's the game. This type of poker ignores that and turns an opponent into a random number that you can plug into a chart or calculator and makes ZERO sense to me. If you're playing an SNG or a tourn you're going to know what they're doing even if you don't see the showdowns by how many hands they play and how they play them so this stuff has never appealed to me but hey, if you can win with it consistently with the Q5 and the K3 in tourns and SNGs then go for it. There are times to be going with those types of hands and those examples didn't seem like the right times for me.

I'll listen but I know how this stuff turns out for me. And if I start playing those types of hands and lose I'm going to be thinking either "I can't believe I sucked out on them" or "I can't believe I got away with that" which is definitely not the mindset I want to have playing hands.
 
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Chase

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This I understand - play against folks who are worse than I am. Problem is where are those folks?

I passed the mid-term though, so maybe there is hope after all. Thanks Collin & Katie.
 
Atararo14

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Hello, thank you for this lesson.

Day #15 Finished

Quiz answers :

1. I call 40 chips with pair of 2s, I have good odds to see the flop.

I fold K9o on the hi jack because this hand is not part of the open range at this position, and does not give good post flop playability if I call.

I open raise with ATo on the hi jack because it's part of the open range.

2. With 87 of hearts I check because the flop is connected and we are 3 players in this spot.

3. With ATo I fold, because there is a call from UTG and raise from UTG1, his open range is strong.

4. I fold 44 on the bing blind, because SB's sizing is big and doesn't give the odds for calling.

5. the percentage equity is 18.3%

The equity expressed in chips is 4751 * 18.3% = 869

6. Wa have to bet on the river with 65s to fold the missed draws, our opponent probably does not have an Ace or Jack (he did not raise preflop in the big blind)

7. With K3s we shove in small blind because the big blind has 15 BB (effective stack).

8. pot odds are 12.1 K / (8.7 K - 1.6 K ) / = 1.71

Equity versus his range we need is approximately 37%

9. On the turn, I shove because in semi bluff because I have good equity.
 
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Well here we go again. One time we don't c-bet with three players and a flush draw, the next we do heads-up with a flush draw. Also, he misidentifies the effective stack. This course SUCKS! I'm done!
 
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fundiver199

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Well here we go again. One time we don't c-bet with three players and a flush draw, the next we do heads-up with a flush draw. Also, he misidentifies the effective stack. This course SUCKS! I'm done!
I think, its a fine course, especially considering that its offered for free :)
 
Eduard0Felipe

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Selection of the game, I got there, half of the course. What can make an excellent player have big losses and a technically inferior player win, in the book the shortest and simplest lesson yet, already in the video, the biggest and most complete, score 10 on the test and thanks again Collin and Katie .

15/30.
 
houcineben10

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7/10 in the quizz
I miss three question the first is K9 o at the hj after two players limp deep stack I choose to call the correct answer was fold.
The second one was A 10 off after limp from utg and raise from UTG+1 in the co I chose the 3 bet the correcte answer was to fold.
Third mistake was in the last hand 32 s at the bb blind versus two player one in utg one in late position calling a min raise. Flop ca 45of heart with a j. Hero make a Big donk rents and he is called by the utg, turn a blank the the question was was must we do ?
I choose to check to have a chance to see the river for free and can escape from the hand if we don’t hit, but the correcte answer was to push all in since we have fold equity and we still have 30% equity with our double draw.
Agression is the key for playing draw.
Then I respond variance for the last bonus queqtion the correcte answer was table selection.
Pretty nice cours I think I just need to review my notes then I can continue the course ✍️😍
Thanks cards chart 😍
 
Debi

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7/10 in the quizz
I miss three question the first is K9 o at the hj after two players limp deep stack I choose to call the correct answer was fold.
The second one was A 10 off after limp from utg and raise from UTG+1 in the co I chose the 3 bet the correcte answer was to fold.
Third mistake was in the last hand 32 s at the bb blind versus two player one in utg one in late position calling a min raise. Flop ca 45of heart with a j. Hero make a Big donk rents and he is called by the utg, turn a blank the the question was was must we do ?
I choose to check to have a chance to see the river for free and can escape from the hand if we don’t hit, but the correcte answer was to push all in since we have fold equity and we still have 30% equity with our double draw.
Agression is the key for playing draw.
Then I respond variance for the last bonus queqtion the correcte answer was table selection.
Pretty nice cours I think I just need to review my notes then I can continue the course ✍️😍
Thanks cards chart 😍

That is still a good score!
 
Gutshot Gus

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I liked this. It got me to thinking about ways to win pots that I would have folded before.
That last ? with the 32s and playing for the flush draw and the straight draw with all of those outs made me kind of nervous. Both of those draws were for the low end of the draw with a lot of things that could happen to have you drawing for the second best hand.
Table selection has gotten harder on ACR where I play as they are now hiding the identity of players until you are playing. I try to find the tables that have the highest % of players seeing the flop and playing 9 handed instead of 6 handed tables. By playing 9 handed you average 5 rounds less per hour to post blinds versus 6 handed. This helps the win rate.
 
Debi

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I liked this. It got me to thinking about ways to win pots that I would have folded before.
That last ? with the 32s and playing for the flush draw and the straight draw with all of those outs made me kind of nervous. Both of those draws were for the low end of the draw with a lot of things that could happen to have you drawing for the second best hand.
Table selection has gotten harder on ACR where I play as they are now hiding the identity of players until you are playing. I try to find the tables that have the highest % of players seeing the flop and playing 9 handed instead of 6 handed tables. By playing 9 handed you average 5 rounds less per hour to post blinds versus 6 handed. This helps the win rate.

Yea table selection has become much more difficult since this course was written.
 
jonasz warzecha

jonasz warzecha

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7 with (2 of them just guess) right answers
Definitely will go back to some days
Was reading ebook and watch videos but somehow missing or straying in the dark how to put everything into work
(Odds with equity and equilab than shove vs fold )
Maybe because my English and missing something or misunderstanding something differently like prove myself in today video
but this video was very helpful.

Was good in questions involved calculating effective stack and number of BB but it usually in very deep stage of turnament or final tables where I struggle to get there.

Today I was deep in 2 MTT
Freeroll 4500 players. Was killing it in money 150th stack for 270 players left. Wanted to rise but somehow on phone finger went into bar and chose all in and somehow pressed bet so lost
And smother 2200 players 250 left me on 120th positionhad big chance for double up and put myself in top 5 but somehow on late stage of the game when I should be more open aggresive I’m become frozen

Bulding good stack and then look like it’s dissapear and I’m to scared to attack

So far I took place in 3 silver level freerols and in 2 of them register and went all in 1st hand just to give someone chips. reason why I was in family gathering so couldn’t play.
3rd time I finish 12th
(could wait for some to bust and reach final table but it was before ICM day 14 course so…. I pushed )
so I still belive that if will put more effort into it it’s gonna work.

I belive in future days will be more about later phase of the turnament

Need to improve my dictionary in this field
But videos like this help me a lot even coming back to previous days and fill the gaps.
Thank you
 
georgi krastev

georgi krastev

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But where is this (enclosed in a blue rectangle above) ... i reatch the day 15 and see nowhere such a score or something... Can anybody, please, explain.
 
Gh0stL

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Hi, day 15 finished, about review of before days.
1.
ATo: As a villain are limping I think good option is raise in the Hi Jack position.
2s: The best option is call, because we have option to get set and we can earn more chips.
K9o: The best option is fold because this hand is not strong for this position

2.
78s hearts: the best action is check because we have a wet flop but our opponent doesn't have none of this cards because they limp. And we have possibility to get straight.

3.
ATo: Fold because in early position the villain are raise and they have probably premium hands.

4.
44: Should Fold because the SB their range are probably have a strong hand than our and odds is not in our favor.

5.
KTs equity is 18.76%
Equity expressed in chips: 4751*18.76% = 869

6.
65s: We have to c-bet because we are playin agressive and our opponent doesn't have nothing and is best option to bluff.

7.
K3s: We should be go All in because we cover the villain.

8.
Q5o: Pot odds are: 12.1k / (8.7k - 1.6k) = 1.71
Equity against his range we need 40%

9.
32s: In the turn we should go all in because is a good opportunity to bluff and we have a lot of odds.

10.
Table selection

Thanks for this review about the before lessons.
 
Anamembu

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Day 15 completed, it's a valuable lesson. Reviewing the foundational principles and understanding the importance of game selection is crucial for the development of any poker player. Thank you for this lesson!
 
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I review the course because I have lost my orientation according to the calculations I make, I am clarifying my mind, I am between the ICM and the GTO, now I better understand the level of continuation betting.
 
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