The quicker you can learn to play a decent game of poker the better. Cut your teeth on Freerolls by all means as a learnibg process, but leave them behind once you progress.
Start playing cash games, and at the highest stakes you can afford. This should remove the poorer skill players amd the all in merchants with no hand. You'll be playing in a different class of players who know and understand the game and hopefully will prove to be more profitable for you

I actually agree 100%. I am playing a lot of free rolls at the moment only because of the time of year. It helps pass the time. But yes money games always tend to make the craziness go away.

its better cash games

Originally Posted by rigor mortis

The quicker you can learn to play a decent game of poker the better. Cut your teeth on Freerolls by all means as a learnibg process, but leave them behind once you progress.
Start playing cash games, and at the highest stakes you can afford. This should remove the poorer skill players amd the all in merchants with no hand. You'll be playing in a different class of players who know and understand the game and hopefully will prove to be more profitable for you

Disagree here big time $2000-$10000+ a year can be made from freerolls and the buy in games you win after cashing in freerolls.
Look at this freeroll for example on week 1 task 1.JPG

week 2 task 1.JPG

I do agree freerolls are not the end goal. They require a certain crazy playing style which relies on a lot of luck. I'm generally short on luck.

But high stakes cash games are not the next step for most of us either. Yes, you're going to encounter a much higher calibre of play, but are you ready for that? Even if you're a strong player, when everyone is equally skilled the margins are very slim. High risk - low margins. I guess it depends on how much you're willing, and more importantly able to risk.

Freerolls has it's place in the poker world, but cash games
are more apealing to the seasoned player.

I think freerolls are a good way to build a starting bankroll. And then what to play - everyone chooses for himself.

It your own thoughts. I personally found 200 and have learned a lot.

Originally Posted by rigor mortis

The quicker you can learn to play a decent game of poker the better. Cut your teeth on Freerolls by all means as a learnibg process, but leave them behind once you progress.
Start playing cash games, and at the highest stakes you can afford. This should remove the poorer skill players amd the all in merchants with no hand. You'll be playing in a different class of players who know and understand the game and hopefully will prove to be more profitable for you

If you believe that removing "poorer skill players and the all in merchants with no hand" is beneficial to your game, and also "play the highest stakes you can afford", please let me know how that turns out for you (you may call collect once you lose everything).

I disagree I have started all my bankrolls on different poker sites all by freerolls. Then I started playing buy in tournaments later and won more. In the process you learn how to play for free and win money. But it is true playing in buy in tournaments players do play better but lower buy in ones still have players play some bad hands. It is poker gambling it is I look at it that way.

When I switched to cash games, I thought that players take the game more seriously than in freerolls. Not really. You sit for hours without losing or winning. Crazy players come in, put all the streets in a row and get nuts on the river. You lose the amount for the whole day gained.

I don't always know people who have gone up and down again

Originally Posted by rigor mortis

The quicker you can learn to play a decent game of poker the better. Cut your teeth on Freerolls by all means as a learnibg process, but leave them behind once you progress.
Start playing cash games, and at the highest stakes you can afford. This should remove the poorer skill players amd the all in merchants with no hand. You'll be playing in a different class of players who know and understand the game and hopefully will prove to be more profitable for you

Naturally, when the bank has grown it will no longer want to spend time on a freeroll. But sometimes you can play to relax, break in new tactics.

I don't think there is anything wrong with playing freerolls even as you progress in your skill level. They are a good way to pass time and in some ways it helps you improve other skills need for poker. You just have to adjust your style of play, never think you can play a freeroll the same way you can play a buy-in game (depending on the buy-in that is).

I like freerolls because of bankroll startups. The problem is the crazy amount of loose players that call anything.

I mostly agree, I find freerolls to largely be a very punty experience outside of the FRC. I admit that I even punt myself in the small ACR freerolls since the prizes really aren't worth much of my time.

I'm nothing without freerolls.If it wasn't for freerolls I wouldn't play on line poker.I am an on line poker player,specialy freerolls.

Originally Posted by rigor mortis

The quicker you can learn to play a decent game of poker the better. Cut your teeth on Freerolls by all means as a learnibg process, but leave them behind once you progress.
Start playing cash games, and at the highest stakes you can afford. This should remove the poorer skill players amd the all in merchants with no hand. You'll be playing in a different class of players who know and understand the game and hopefully will prove to be more profitable for you

There are parts of your post that I agree with, but a lot of it I disagree with. I agree that the quicker you learn to play a decent game of poker the better! However, jumping to stakes you can't afford and not understanding the high level of thought by the players you're playing with will do nothing but put you in the poor house. You need to gradually improve and prove you can beat the current stakes you're playing and yes, that should start with free-rolls.

I see you say use free-rolls as a leaning process, so you do understand they are a learning tool, but you then say they should jump to the highest level they can afford once they have "learned what they need to progress", which is very much not true. The game of poker is constantly evolving and NO ONE will ever have it learned, so you need to make the natural progression from bottom to top. Once you can beat free-rolls then you try to beat micro stakes, then mid stakes, then high stakes. You learn throughout this whole process.

Now to the most baffling part of your post. Why....... why oh why would you want to remove bad players, and replace them with good players............... WHYYYYYYY we profit off bad players, that is the easiest form of poker. Why would you think that playing better players would be more profitable for anyone?

Originally Posted by hugh blair

Disagree here big time $2000-$10000+ a year can be made from freerolls and the buy in games you win after cashing in freerolls.
Look at this freeroll for example on partypoker this Saturday forgot about it you must be joking my alarm is set.
I am no stranger to putting in volume on much higher stakes and serious games just think you should play both and not miss any value at all example below,
All the freeroll is just another screen open when have 5 or 6 screens open anyway.
While you should grind higher stakes when you can frankly am alarmed by overlooking anything that is +EV in your poker schedule.
Happy new year to you and yours rigor mortis.
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Well put Hugh I agree completely with your post! Well said.

Originally Posted by MattRyder

I do agree freerolls are not the end goal. They require a certain crazy playing style which relies on a lot of luck. I'm generally short on luck.

But high stakes cash games are not the next step for most of us either. Yes, you're going to encounter a much higher calibre of play, but are you ready for that? Even if you're a strong player, when everyone is equally skilled the margins are very slim. High risk - low margins. I guess it depends on how much you're willing, and more importantly able to risk.

I agree. Well put.

Originally Posted by zinzir

If you believe that removing "poorer skill players and the all in merchants with no hand" is beneficial to your game, and also "play the highest stakes you can afford", please let me know how that turns out for you (you may call collect once you lose everything).

Yea, not going to go well. Will be applying for personal loans, and selling their house in the future.

The (small amount) money I have won in free rolls I use to play in the money games. What I am not big on is when buy-in can be up to 90 min. after the game has started.

Freerolls for life. Easy game.

Poker is poker man. It does not matter if it is freeroll or play money or $500 buy in. It is the same game. If you love the game you play anything. If you play a good game you can be successful at any buy in level.

Removing the lesser players from a game will never make it easier to profit in. This is what bad players tell themselves to justify why they can't beat a game.

A fair point to make would have been that if you are playing purely for the $$$ the freerolls and micro buyins does not offer the kind of return on investment (Both time and money) that the higher levels does.

hi there
i agree with you....but
dont forget that there are starters with low stakes and fishes
you should pay attention to those
rgds

I'm a fan of freerolls personally, especially when they offer a nice prize. However, I've been learning and am still learning the game so it makes sense for me.

Will use today as an example I played 3 games on partypoker including 1 buy and 1 on june week 2.JPG

week 1 task 1.JPG

week 2 task 1.JPG

week 1 task 3.JPG

visacard.jpg

I agree with the original poster. With the exception of the Cards Chat freerolls here in the USA, most of them suck because they only give away $10-$15 in a field of hundreds of players. That's ridiculous. ACR did a freeroll series recently that was for big $$$, but the structure was so terrible that you were forced to gamble while eliminating the skill component of the game. I didn't like it at all.

Almost every bit of money I have online started with freerolls .. the one exception is BOL where they forced me to deposit if I wanted to keep playing .. I kind of feel that they changed the rules on me ...as this was not stated anywhere when I started playing there ..but oh well so be it ...all that said I think they have a place if you are trying to start from scratch, and get practical experience learning to play ... it can be done ... but I am not a fan of them any longer .. it gets frustrating trying to crawl through a huge field of horrible players ...

I haven't seen nor am I able to play in the ones that were being shown with such high payouts, haha that may be different : ) ... the only ones I play now are from CC for fun, and in the US where we have few choices if we want to play at all .. otherwise I don't feel they are really worth my time .. much easier to grind cash games after a while, for me at least ...

Originally Posted by Cam54

Almost every bit of money I have online started with freerolls .. the one exception is BOL where they forced me to deposit if I wanted to keep playing .. I kind of feel that they changed the rules on me ...as this was not stated anywhere when I started playing there ..but oh well so be it ...all that said I think they have a place if you are trying to start from scratch, and get practical experience learning to play ... it can be done ... but I am not a fan of them any longer .. it gets frustrating trying to crawl through a huge field of horrible players ...

I haven't seen nor am I able to play in the ones that were being shown with such high payouts, haha that may be different : ) ... the only ones I play now are from CC for fun, and in the US where we have few choices if we want to play at all .. otherwise I don't feel they are really worth my time .. much easier to grind cash games after a while, for me at least ...

Yeaaaa, they screwed you. Because I’ve been playing on BOL for a good bit and I’ve never deposited.

Heres how I got into poker. It was blackjack. The casino was Grand Portage, Minnesota. Gary Paro was manager. It wasn't much buy-in. I walked off with the most the casino ever had done to him as manager. Heres the Canadian kicker. Quarter to half your bet as tip. In Grand Portage it was half my bet cause I didnt want to change colors of chips. The goal really was to fill up tip box without a lot of buy-ins. But the casinos closed up there so I walked with money. I did it twice in Thunder Bay, Canada and twice in Grand Portage. Max betting a third of the way through and not much buy-in. It got me on line witch led to a Pokerstars, Fulltilt, and PartyPoker dance. Witch started with the MSN casino Pacific Poker. They just kept raising me up the latter. Eventually coming down a little and winding up on ACR and Intertops. See the luck needed to play cards.

Originally Posted by rigor mortis

The quicker you can learn to play a decent game of poker the better. Cut your teeth on Freerolls by all means as a learnibg process, but leave them behind once you progress.
Start playing cash games, and at the highest stakes you can afford. This should remove the poorer skill players amd the all in merchants with no hand. You'll be playing in a different class of players who know and understand the game and hopefully will prove to be more profitable for you

profoundly disagree 100 MILLION PERCENT


i never deposited on any site until 2017 first one ive done 3 deposits by the way since then two different sites...

Anyway my poker career has started online in 2003 I have withdrawn over 100 bucks on over 60 sites..... I used freerolls to start on each site etc...

freerolls are a grind yes but if you multi table like me running 3 or 4 freerolls a day is awesome.... a lot of times this is the one place you can win some money back smaller fields etc...


take notes learn your opponents.... I am not sure where you are saying or stating (incorrectly imho) that there is a higher degree of play.... I play everything from freerolls to 1-2-3 dollar games up to 100 dollar buy ins at times..... 109 is highest by in in last 4 years.... satty to some in that range for 200k gtd's etc..

anyway ive seen good players at every level and ive noted bad play ON Every Level period....

ive played up to 5/10 ring also and same thing....

There is sooooo much cardschat can offer any player regarding freerolls is a ton more for NON USA players but still is at least a freeroll daily here for usa and anyone else.

anyway is my two cents freerolls made me a small fortune so ill always play them


also for me is about playing with people I know and like etc... especially the ones here

gl all on the felt and in life happy holidays

p.s. in last 5 weeks on freerolls alone ive won over 500 bucks .... they must be a terrible thing to do lol

Freerolls are good for training while you might still win a free ticket to a good tournament where you can play even more relaxed since you're not playing it from your normal money,but it's something won for 'free'

Originally Posted by MemphisGrind

Yeaaaa, they screwed you. Because I’ve been playing on BOL for a good bit and I’ve never deposited.

Yeah I 've heard that same story from more than a few at this point actually ... still don't understand why they did that, and it cheesed me off for a minute, but I like playing their site .. works heads and shoulders better than any other one I have ever played at except for PS and Full Tilt a long time ago ... I mean it was only 25 bucks lol who cares ... less than what I have won there, so yeah I know it was not the norm to do that ....

Originally Posted by rigor mortis

The quicker you can learn to play a decent game of poker the better. Cut your teeth on Freerolls by all means as a learnibg process, but leave them behind once you progress.
Start playing cash games, and at the highest stakes you can afford. This should remove the poorer skill players amd the all in merchants with no hand. You'll be playing in a different class of players who know and understand the game and hopefully will prove to be more profitable for you

I have to disagree here.
First,MTTs and ring-games are completely different formats and therefore hard to compare. Then you're playing a way worse opposition in freerolls than in any ring Game-at the micro stakes- even more on higher buy-ins. As said before you can easily win 1000$ + in a year through freerolls and/or cash added micro MTTs.

During my last complete year of playing online poker (2013) I accumulated 1230 $ that way - and I wasn't even really good at playing.


Try to take note of every hand your opponents play and start capitalising on their mistakes.
Always remember that you want to play against the idiot and not the pro.

Freerolls are easier than betting games. If you have a good hand, and play against who goes All-In with weak hands, you are better than most of these players. And even in expensive games there is Bluff, never forget All-in with 72 is not a bad move if you make the other go FOLD.

Originally Posted by rigor mortis

The quicker you can learn to play a decent game of poker the better. Cut your teeth on Freerolls by all means as a learnibg process, but leave them behind once you progress.
Start playing cash games, and at the highest stakes you can afford. This should remove the poorer skill players amd the all in merchants with no hand. You'll be playing in a different class of players who know and understand the game and hopefully will prove to be more profitable for you

I thought this as well a few months back but, now, I have to disagree with you.

There was much more (still is) for me to learn which is applicable even in a shoot-em-up environment like a freeroll. I went back to some more learning material and playing freerolls almost exclusively. Playing cash games with a bunch of good players wasn't at all profitable. In fact, they ate my lunch! It'd be better to be able to single out weak players in a cash game... Anyway, I thought I knew a lot and then realized I didn't. So, back to the lessons and freerolls for me. But that's just me.

You are right about the freeroll. This is just the beginning for the player. But most players will not be able to profit in cash tables. And it will be 75%. Read the statistics. Before you play cash tables, think carefully about whether you are ready.

Originally Posted by rigor mortis

Start playing cash games, and at the highest stakes you can afford.

I`dont know. Maybe 3-4th stake from bottom would be better. In other hand if you can afford and can beat yes you should play it.

Originally Posted by hugh blair

Disagree here big time $2000-$10000+ a year can be made from freerolls and the buy in games you win after cashing in freerolls.
Look at this freeroll for example on partypoker this Saturday forgot about it you must be joking my alarm is set.
I am no stranger to putting in volume on much higher stakes and serious games just think you should play both and not miss any value at all example below,
All the freeroll is just another screen open when have 5 or 6 screens open anyway.
While you should grind higher stakes when you can frankly am alarmed by overlooking anything that is +EV in your poker schedule.
Happy new year to you and yours rigor mortis.

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comletely agree! =) for example yesterday I cashed 27 cents in Sick_nerd freeroll on PartyPoker, then invested it in $0,25 spin and won $1,25. now I will invest it in $1,1 tour =) wish me luck!

I have a real life. So many times I start a freeroll, then all heck breaks loose which will pull me from the game. I like the freeroll more than a cash game, because I wont be out any funds if I have to walk away from the game.

Yeah I agree that they have crazy all in players in freerolls. But, I still love playing because they are free. If you think they are a waste of time, then no one is stopping you from playing them.

I think freerolls are a good way to build a starting bankroll.And in a slow way to gain some discipline

I totally disagree! Any tournament you can play for free and win money is a no brainer.
You may have to change your style of play to a more bingo ish range and worry less about position but its easy money for a skilled player.

Just because you are capable of winning or placing in a freeroll is not enough of an indicator that you are playing a superior game and you should make the jump to low/mid/high stake games.

Jumping from freeroll player to mid/high stakes is not a good idea at all.

At micro / low stake cash tables and MTTs you will find no difference in player skill level as the freeroll players(you), however, I would NOT suggest taking your freeroll winnings and playing mid and high level stakes, hoping to find a better game with decent players, unless you have a advanced understanding of the game. These levels are not for learning! You must be able to handle crazy aggression, have a solid understanding on playing ranges, odds, equity, betting, bluffing... people at these stake levels make far less mistakes.

If you think you can just play tight, wait for AA, or good playable broadway cards and suited connectors, you will lose guaranteed!! Know your skill level and stay in your lane or you will just be easy money for players at those levels.

For me cash games are the best way to learn poker, because a chip is a chip, and stacks are usually 100BB deep, which allow a lot of turn and river play. But I dont recommend skipping stakes. Its best to start at the lowest stake, the site offer, and only move up once you are a winner there. On PokerStars and 888 you can start with 2NL, and maybe you dont need to put in a million hands there, but 20.000 should be the minimum, before you attempt to move up.

It could be argued, that you learn more from playing in tougher games. But for the majority of people I feel, that losing is going to be demotivating rather than jump-start their career as a high stakes professional player. So I highly recommend to play in games, that you beat, and only move up gradually. This approach also lends itself well to learning good bankroll management. You make a deposit once and for all, and then you dont move up, until you are bankrolled for the next limit.

As for freerolls I will play the better ones for sure, especially if I am on the site already. But I dont chase around from site to site to play as many as possible, I dont play at inconvenient times, and if the price pool is very low like 5.000 people competing for 500$, I will usually also pass. I did play a lot of the 3.000$ BLAST freerolls on 888 poker though and probably won tickets worth at least 100$.

There's a wide range of freerolls out there. If you're lucky enough to find one with decent prizes and a small(ish) field, the play probably better than you expect.

The ones with massive fields (esp. coupled w/ low prizes) do tend to devolve into push-fests.

I always prefer to play on frerrolls for obvious reasons. is that we don't have to put money on it. on some of them the gains can really be significant. of course we are always better paying when we manage to achieve a good resulltat on a paying tournament. but in the long term it is difficult to reach this objective if we do not have a good banckroll. you need at least between $ 200 and $ 250 to participate in $ 1 MTTs. which is not at the door of all the purses. personally thanks to CC, I managed to improve my game beyond my expectations but this is not why I am going to abandon the frerrolls.

Originally Posted by rigor mortis

The quicker you can learn to play a decent game of poker the better. Cut your teeth on Freerolls by all means as a learnibg process, but leave them behind once you progress.
Start playing cash games, and at the highest stakes you can afford. This should remove the poorer skill players amd the all in merchants with no hand. You'll be playing in a different class of players who know and understand the game and hopefully will prove to be more profitable for you

totally. cant really learn poker on freerolls

I can't imagine how freerolls are good for a player in general. You can't play a normal poker game since everyone all in with mediocre hand for the first 2 hours of the tournament. I only play them when my 'bankroll' reaches 0. I don't actually have a bankroll since I usually just make 10$ deposit at a time and play a few 4.40 -3.30 tournaments. Maybe I got iit all wrong since I never reached 50$ in order to actually withdraw and turn to profit those money and time I'm putting in poker

Originally Posted by FelixTheLord

I can't imagine how freerolls are good for a player in general. You can't play a normal poker game since everyone all in with mediocre hand for the first 2 hours of the tournament. I only play them when my 'bankroll' reaches 0. I don't actually have a bankroll since I usually just make 10$ deposit at a time and play a few 4.40 -3.30 tournaments. Maybe I got iit all wrong since I never reached 50$ in order to actually withdraw and turn to profit those money and time I'm putting in poker

I suggest reading some articles in Bankroll management. 4.40$ is far to high with 10$.
Try 0.10$ instead.

Originally Posted by Worak

I suggest reading some articles in Bankroll management. 4.40$ is far to high with 10$.
Try 0.10$ instead.

I don't think there are tournaments that small on pokerstars

Originally Posted by FelixTheLord

I don't think there are tournaments that small on pokerstars

0.02$ - 900 Player MTT is available.

Freerolls are good for those who are just starting out. Over time, each person will enjoy more than one type of game and will level up according to their knowledge and bankroll.