Is folding one of the most valuable skills in poker?

jadaminato

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I've been playing poker for a short time (seriously, at least), but every day I convince myself that the most valuable play I can do is fold a couple of aces when someone obviously has trips, or fold trips when there is almost certainly a Full-house on the table.


Books often talk about the texture of the flop and read your opponents. But I think sometimes it is not enough. I had to make a poster and paste it on the wall: FOLD. You open with JJ in UTG, one player makes 3bet and the next one puts all his chips in the middle. Do you have a good stack yet? Then, FOLD! You open with a pair of kings, the flop comes all of hearts and your opponent does all-in. Can he be bluffing? Of course. Finding out can leave you out of the tournament.

They are examples, no need to discuss them. But I simply believe that, along with learning to select the cards with which one is going to play, the first step should be to learn to fold them quickly when you are behind.

What do you think?
 
goaldriversv

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absolutely. i think knowing when to fold is one of the most important skills and actions you can make in any form of poker. when i first started playing poker especially online where you get so many hands per hour and because i'm so competitive, i hated the idea of folding because it felt like i was giving in to the villain. i learned real quick that there's no room for ego
 
D

dompoker

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I think if, sometimes to fold a hand that seems good, you can avoid losing all your chips, and this can help you go far in a tournament.
 
finaltable1

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I've been playing poker for a short time (seriously, at least), but every day I convince myself that the most valuable play I can do is fold a couple of aces when someone obviously has trips, or fold trips when there is almost certainly a Full-house on the table.


Books often talk about the texture of the flop and read your opponents. But I think sometimes it is not enough. I had to make a poster and paste it on the wall: FOLD. You open with JJ in UTG, one player makes 3bet and the next one puts all his chips in the middle. Do you have a good stack yet? Then, FOLD! You open with a pair of kings, the flop comes all of hearts and your opponent does all-in. Can he be bluffing? Of course. Finding out can leave you out of the tournament.

They are examples, no need to discuss them. But I simply believe that, along with learning to select the cards with which one is going to play, the first step should be to learn to fold them quickly when you are behind.

What do you think?

In 95% of cases you will never know if you are ahead or if you're behind until the showdown. What you're trying to say here smells bad. You can browse HighRoller games for free at the pokerstars each day and see how often these guys are folding their KK/JJ on the flop. LOL. In 80% of cases, doesn't matter if it's $500 or $10K buy-in, JJ-KK and AJ+ is a NO FOLD.
If top regs open with KK and there is a flop full of hearts while they have no hearts, and opponent goes all-in then it's a 100% call if there is no ace on the flop. I would do the same, 100% of times, cause in 95% of cases you're against top pair holding overpair or against a heavy OESD-FLush Draw holding a pair, and it's a sure call. There are exclusions like bubble time with much smaller stack than both players in such hand.

Your problem is that you're thinking about online poker like you can feel something and you believe that it's true, before you've seen the real truth. Huds lie, players lie, it's a game for liars and played by liars, if you want to play fair game and will fold too often with dominating hands just because you have feelings that give you doubts then you won't be a winning player. Even if the flop is full of hearts, and you're holding KK with no hearts and your opponent is pushing all-in and HE HAS THAT FLUSH, STILL YOU have outs to hit that full house or quads... He caught his 0.5% of luck and hit that flush on the flop, but you have your 2% of luck to hit your full house on the river.

P.S. It's better to play 15+ tourneys per day using "I will never fold during early stage of the MTT" strategy, than to play just 1 tourney with doubts and fears. You will see the final table much more often in the first scenario... And you know... most of the prize pool is right there, at the final table.

P.P.S. Make another poster: "Luck favors the Brave" and place it on top of the "Fold" poster :captain:
 
KristaK

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i agree fold is a great button take advantage of
however seems players aggressive in later stages tournament often victorious
 
MattRyder

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I absolutely agree! It's also the hardest skill to acquire - I'm still actively working on it.
 
KristaK

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I absolutely agree! It's also the hardest skill to acquire - I'm still actively working on it.
hi hi
Matt never fold when play me, usually take many my chips lol
 
Norman Vasquez

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In 95% of cases you will never know if you are ahead or if you're behind until the showdown. What you're trying to say here smells bad. You can browse HighRoller games for free at the PokerStars each day and see how often these guys are folding their KK/JJ on the flop. LOL. In 80% of cases, doesn't matter if it's $500 or $10K buy-in, JJ-KK and AJ+ is a NO FOLD.
If top regs open with KK and there is a flop full of hearts while they have no hearts, and opponent goes all-in then it's a 100% call if there is no ace on the flop. I would do the same, 100% of times, cause in 95% of cases you're against top pair holding overpair or against a heavy OESD-FLush Draw holding a pair, and it's a sure call. There are exclusions like bubble time with much smaller stack than both players in such hand.

Your problem is that you're thinking about online poker like you can feel something and you believe that it's true, before you've seen the real truth. Huds lie, players lie, it's a game for liars and played by liars, if you want to play fair game and will fold too often with dominating hands just because you have feelings that give you doubts then you won't be a winning player. Even if the flop is full of hearts, and you're holding KK with no hearts and your opponent is pushing all-in and HE HAS THAT FLUSH, STILL YOU have outs to hit that full house or quads... He caught his 0.5% of luck and hit that flush on the flop, but you have your 2% of luck to hit your full house on the river.

P.S. It's better to play 15+ tourneys per day using "I will never fold during early stage of the MTT" strategy, than to play just 1 tourney with doubts and fears. You will see the final table much more often in the first scenario... And you know... most of the prize pool is right there, at the final table.

P.P.S. Make another poster: "Luck favors the Brave" and place it on top of the "Fold" poster :captain:



Great answer, can’t be afraid playing poker.
 
Norman Vasquez

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I've been playing poker for a short time (seriously, at least), but every day I convince myself that the most valuable play I can do is fold a couple of aces when someone obviously has trips, or fold trips when there is almost certainly a Full-house on the table.


Books often talk about the texture of the flop and read your opponents. But I think sometimes it is not enough. I had to make a poster and paste it on the wall: FOLD. You open with JJ in UTG, one player makes 3bet and the next one puts all his chips in the middle. Do you have a good stack yet? Then, FOLD! You open with a pair of kings, the flop comes all of hearts and your opponent does all-in. Can he be bluffing? Of course. Finding out can leave you out of the tournament.

They are examples, no need to discuss them. But I simply believe that, along with learning to select the cards with which one is going to play, the first step should be to learn to fold them quickly when you are behind.

What do you think?



The KK is a terrible example, will you bet all your chips right away after hitting a monster on flop when you were not the preflop aggressor? If he does have the flush he is a weak player and you tag him and add the note. To Fold is not a skill, knowing when is more profitable at long run when or when not to fold is the skill. You need to be careful that you are not giving away chips by being to tight.
 
SAKhur

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Knowing what a Fold is in poker and how to profitably use this solution, you can increase your profits.The player must make a profit by minimizing the wrong decisions and realizing the potential in profitable situations that generate income in the long run.:captain:
 
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gwj63

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I've never seen such horrible advice as finaltable1,
never fold early in a mtt? What a stupid piece of advice.
its better to play 15 tourneys knowing to fold if it looks like your beat then to chase a 5% piece of luck.
Knowing when to fold is the MOST valuable knowledge to have in cash games and tournaments.
that guys calling an all-in with sixes and getting dominated by sevens, or he's calling an allin with aj and getting dominated by ak.
You don't get to a final table by making bad calls you get there by knowing when to fold them and when to hold them and the fold is a lifegiver not a lifetaker.
Even a "bad" fold is a good fold.
But a bad call is never a good call too.
 
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Newzooozooo

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Hi.
Obviously, a good player must be able to critically analyze the situation and make the most optimal decision, which usually involves such an option as a fold.
Good luck.
 
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neptun1914

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Folding a hand if you see that you are behind is definitely very important. Numerous times i had situations when i have 2 pairs for example and somebody have set or trips. It is difficult to let such hand go but it is the correct decision.
 
greatgame230

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Yes, knowing when to fold a hand is the most valuable and perhaps the most difficult of Poker, from my point of view there is the difference in winning or losing money
 
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gwj63

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here's a good fold for ya, just happened

in a freeroll
big raise to me, I have aj offsuit, i'm thinking that raise is oversized i'm beat here
I fold, 2 players behind me calls
flop is spade ace spade
they both get their chips in, the first raise was a6 spades, the caller behind me was ak offsuit
i'm crushed here by the ak offsuit if i'm in this hand
turn is a spade so a6 spades wins pot, but I still have all my chips and life
sometimes ya gotta let a decent hand go
 
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lontrus

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Yes, certainly. A big trap is feeling uplifted when you see Aces. They're just a pair. You have to be focused enough to see what else is going on at the table before shoving with them.
 
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gwj63

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here's a good fold for ya, just happened

in a freeroll
big raise to me, I have aj offsuit, i'm thinking that raise is oversized i'm beat here
I fold, 2 players behind me calls
flop is spade ace spade
they both get their chips in, the first raise was a6 spades, the caller behind me was ak offsuit
i'm crushed here by the ak offsuit if i'm in this hand
turn is a spade so a6 spades wins pot, but I still have all my chips and life

sometimes ya gotta let a decent hand go

heres the update just to complete the story
there were 382 players 10 get paid
I finished 21st with ak clubs vs kk
my point here is, without that fold I don't get this deep and definitely no final table
luck doesn't favor the brave, that's wishful thinking
luck favors the good, or the stupid, but being "brave" in poker is a losing theory in my opinion
 
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GIB

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At the moment, for me, reading the opponent correctly and making the right decision is a challenge. Often I go vabank with a good combination and lose. Therefore, folding is a good skill. Great game when you consider other factors. Just backing down every time players raise, re-raise, all-in is the way to nowhere.
 
vox1er

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Yes I agree with you. On first place the right folds ,2nd place are correct valuebets and on the 3rd - exploitation of opponents.
 
Deedgee

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Yes, but, specifically, folding a big pair, pre-flop, requires real discipline and instinct but is much easier, in many ways, than being able to fold an over pair or top pair after the flop, especially if you suspect that your opponent has a set.
 
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COMIRRR

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It is a "raw" ability to fold when you know you have a good hand but feel that the opponent has something stronger or is lucky to catch something powerful. In those moments I feel that it is not fair what is happening but you have nothing to do, this is poker!
 
T

tmsr

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I typically fold "good" hands pre-flop when there are multiple re-raises or all-ins, as long as I haven't invested too much in the pot, I'll usually fold and let the hand play out. I rarely end up regretting folding. I fold a lot in low stakes MTT's or freerolls early on because people play way too loose for my liking, and I get more aggressive as the blinds get higher and we get closer to the money.
 
jadaminato

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In 95% of cases you will never know if you are ahead or if you're behind until the showdown. What you're trying to say here smells bad. You can browse HighRoller games for free at the PokerStars each day and see how often these guys are folding their KK/JJ on the flop. LOL. In 80% of cases, doesn't matter if it's $500 or $10K buy-in, JJ-KK and AJ+ is a NO FOLD.
If top regs open with KK and there is a flop full of hearts while they have no hearts, and opponent goes all-in then it's a 100% call if there is no ace on the flop. I would do the same, 100% of times, cause in 95% of cases you're against top pair holding overpair or against a heavy OESD-FLush Draw holding a pair, and it's a sure call. There are exclusions like bubble time with much smaller stack than both players in such hand.

Your problem is that you're thinking about online poker like you can feel something and you believe that it's true, before you've seen the real truth. Huds lie, players lie, it's a game for liars and played by liars, if you want to play fair game and will fold too often with dominating hands just because you have feelings that give you doubts then you won't be a winning player. Even if the flop is full of hearts, and you're holding KK with no hearts and your opponent is pushing all-in and HE HAS THAT FLUSH, STILL YOU have outs to hit that full house or quads... He caught his 0.5% of luck and hit that flush on the flop, but you have your 2% of luck to hit your full house on the river.

P.S. It's better to play 15+ tourneys per day using "I will never fold during early stage of the MTT" strategy, than to play just 1 tourney with doubts and fears. You will see the final table much more often in the first scenario... And you know... most of the prize pool is right there, at the final table.

P.P.S. Make another poster: "Luck favors the Brave" and place it on top of the "Fold" poster :captain:




Obviously you never know if you are behind or not, but the grace of the game is in being able to estimate it not ?. By the size of the bets, by the tells, or whatever. Never fold AJ? I think that is very debatable.

The other day I saw a video of a great tournament. A player opens with 77, another raises him with AK and a third pays with JJ. The flop comes A-7-J. The player with the sevens checks, the player with AK makes a continuation bet and the player with JJ pays. Here the matter is already suspicious. The turn is another Ace. The player of the sevens checks again, the player with AK decides to check and the player with the JJ makes a half pot bet. The player with the 77 goes all-in. What does the player do with AK? Folds ... But he has 3 aces! But the other two are singing that they have full-house (or at least one of them).

I agree that you need to take risks to win a tournament. But one thing is a risk and another to give away your chips. And I think it's better, if you don't know anything about another player, assume he has a hand instead of bluffing. But it's just my opinion.

P.S: I said there was no need to discuss the examples because I was obviously doing an exaggeration. What I wanted to underline was the point of view. For specific hand analysis there are sections in the forum.

P.P.S: A good player of this forum once told me: "Having a couple of aces means that you have the best chances before the flop, not that you will always win. Knowing how to recognize when you didn't do it will save you a lot of money."
 
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