Donk, Probe &/or Blocking Bets

[baudib1]

Probe/donk/blocking bets are postflop plays. Folding KQs pre to 3 overbet shoves is ridiculously standard, there's no way you're good there.

 

[Arjonius]

I feel U...

Well, the flaws in my logic occurs because of situations like this:

SNG
Game starts 5/10 current blind w/ 1000 chip stacks 10 players
We'll assume that I'm at CO with KdQd
Everyone limps to me (pot 75chips)
I raise 3bb + 1 for every limper (90chips)
Button, SB AND BB shoves...

Even With the fairly high implied odds I don't want to risk my tournament life facing 3+ players. I figure had I played 2bbs I could have saved 70 with the same result, although I know this flawed logic allows drawing hands to creep in if noones fails to shove. It just seems like some idiots are always shoving... At least at game start anyway.

So I guess I use the play either at earlier game levels and also against players that I sense to be "bushwackers" (those that slow play monsters...) that will tend to spring their trap to quick when they realize I will NOT place enough money into the pot to make it worth their while to continue their deception.

Maybe some alternate suggestions here?; because I KNOW from reading and everything that this is the WRONG way to play, but it has helped me immensely. NOT as being a better player, but as surviving long enough through the above situations to eventually exercise standards I know to be correct to win the game...

Maybe when I finally move up limits I won't even imagine doing the above and laugh at how silly I'm playing now because I'm assuming that player's skill increase as well...

You might want to brush up on your understanding of implied odds. Thee term refers to chips or money not in the pot than you might win if you hit your hand. Since the three opponents are all in, there are no implied odds. This is a pot odds situation.

As for raising in the first place, when you iso-raise without a premium hand, you're looking either to take down the pot immediately or to see the flop in position and with the lead, preferably against one opponent. The more limpers, the less likely you are to get such a situation. If / when one calls, it starts a domino effect where the pot odds are improved for those yet to act.

 

[Ezekiel162]

Probe/donk/blocking bets are postflop plays.

Understood. I'm starting to wish I had named the thread "Different betting types for differents situations discussion". I know that all 3 bets type are diff...

Folding KQs pre to 3 overbet shoves is ridiculously standard, there's no way you're good there.

Completely understood as well as the point I was originally was trying to make was:

...I figure had I played 2bbs I could have saved 70 with the same result...

You might want to brush up on your understanding of implied odds...

Sorry. In my attempt to try to give a hypothetical situation that I seem to encounter regularly I mistakenly used the term "implied" when it clearly should have been "pot" odds. My bad... should I use any future examples I will post HHs or sections thereof. I know that "implied" refers to calculations based on expected...

As for raising in the first place, when you iso-raise without a premium hand, you're looking either to take down the pot immediately or to see the flop in position and with the lead, preferably against one opponent. The more limpers, the less likely you are to get such a situation. If / when one calls, it starts a domino effect where the pot odds are improved for those yet to act.

Very good point. Anytime I enter a pot with prospective players I take the chance that I could be raised or shoved. Just didn't think all 3 shoves would have been after my position. Would you have the played the hand with the approx standard 3BB or folded KdQd from the CO?

 

[Ezekiel162]

Re-visiting the "Probe Bet" briefly. It finally hit me why forum members consider the "probe" to be fairly stupid/wasteful. I was playing an SNG (5/10 blinds) yesterday where an opponent, being first to enter the pot, placed a raise of 27chips and was called by 6 other players. He eventually folded on the next street to a almost insignificant re-raise. I thought "Wtf? how stupid could he be? He lost value, learned nothing about the other players cards and..." ("doh"... smacks head..."Didn't CC members tell me that it made no sense to use a probe bet to...")

Finally occurred to me why members always state the main purpose of a bet/raise is either for value (In the event of the strongest holdings) or as a bluff (Getting stronger hands to fold). Betting/raising appropriately achieves the incorrect notion of a (I'll admit...) "silly" probe bet and then some.

As I learn even more from the forums, and see some of the former concepts I had fade, i'll probably look back eventually and laugh at my different stages of play because I'm laughing at this one right now...

 

[Samango]

Example of what I talked about earlier.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 1.5 Tournament, 30/60 Blinds 6 Ante (2 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB (t1645)
Hero (BB) (t1355)

Hero's M: 13.28

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4

, 2

SB calls t30, Hero checks

Flop: (t132) A

, 7

, A

(2 players)
Hero checks, SB bets t60, Hero calls t60

Turn: (t252) 7

(2 players)
Hero bets t105, 1 fold

Total pot: t252

Results:

Spoiler

Hero didn't show 4

, 2

.
Outcome: Hero won t252

What am I missing here?
If you are BB and villain is SB, how do you get to act first and play this hand oop and get to donk bet?

 

[BlueNowhere]

HU brah. last to act pre is first to act post. Villian is SB pre as well as button so acts first pre and has position post.

 

[Samango]

HU Sorry that is the very obvious thing that I was missing