Bankroll Management is for Winning Players Only!

[glennelson]

Improper BR management can also turn a winning player into a losing player. He might move to higher stakes based on a statistical advantage, take a bad beat, and have to do that much more work to rebuild. You can win nine out of ten pots, but if nine of them are at 1/2 cent and the one you lose is at 10/25 cent, your bankroll could be in bad shape. You're also much more likely to tilt in a situation like that and keep playing 10/25 cent, or worse, move up based on the same advantage to try getting your money back. It makes no difference how good you are, without good BR management, you're always in danger. The best player in the world is an idiot if he risks a third of his bankroll. Sure it could work out, but one cooler and you're broke. Too risky.

I was a winning player, but my BR used to take some pretty wild swings before I incorporated more disciplined management. Now? I could take five bad beats in a row and it doesn't matter in the long run.

 

[rckstr2b]

Improper BR management can also turn a winning player into a losing player..



I was a winning player, but my BR used to take some pretty wild swings before I incorporated more disciplined management. Now? I could take five bad beats in a row and it doesn't matter in the long run.

Key here is, you were a winning player!!!!
Just because you have losing sessions/days/weeks doesn’t mean you are a losing player. All winning players have downswings where nothing goes your way and this is normal, and the main reason pro’s use bankroll management.
They use this to combat variance(luck) side of the game.
You could also be a winning player at 1 level and be a losing player at another. However, if you learned to beat 1 level, there’s a good chance you’ll figure out the next level with some modifications to your game.

 

[Ebsonip]

Ready now he explained it all.

 

[PKRNRS]

Couldn't agree more. My "bankroll" is whatever I have in my bank account and not ear marked for anything else. I've taken $100-1000 at a time to the tables. I've left $0 and I left with thousands. I buy stuff with the money I have or put it back in the back for later

 

[BuzzKillington]

Incorrect,
Losing players need a proper budget, not a bankroll.
Think of it in terms of a business.
If you own a “profitable” business, every month your bank account grows. Even though you’re spending money to build your business through advertising and growing the business, in the end, the money you spend on the business all comes out of the money you made from said business. It’s a self contained ecosystem(obviously this is a generalization since all businesses are different).
When this pretend business first started it is likely that they owners had not proven the business concept, so they started with what we’ll refer to as a budget, meaning that they started with an amount of money to open this business. They also know that it’s not “guaranteed” to bring in any money, so they lower their expenses and work to tighten up all of their business leaks. Let’s say they gave themselves 12 months of funds to make try to make this business profitable.
Even if they eventually are profitable, at this point they are not. All outgoing money is essentially a risk(budget).
Flash forward a year later and this business consistently brings in a health growth percentage.
Now all of their operating capital is leverage to make more money. In poker, this would be considered a bankroll. Before they knew how to use their money to make money, they were on a budget.

Every poker player starts out as a losing player, it’s nothing to be ashamed of. It a great motivator to learn the game better than your opponents.
I’m sure people will want to contest this as well and that’s fine, however, understand almost all of the people(possibly all)contesting this are not yet winning players, that should tell you something.

Point taken. Thanks for the explanation. I just wanted to emphasize that you can't just throw your money away, even when you're a losing player. But that is, of course, something you agree with as well. In that case, I am fine with the distinction between a budget and a bankroll.

 

[Mini1380]

I agree bankroll for winning player

 

[David macdonald]

Been seeing a lot of questions about bankroll management, and how much bankroll should you start out with if you’re a beginner, or even intermediate player.

I’m going to answer once a for all this difficult question:

There’s no such thing as bankroll management for losing players!!!!!!

If you are not a “winning” player, meaning you consistently don’t win more than you lose, no matter how much your starting bankroll is, it will only decrease over time if you don’t improve your game.
If you’re a losing player, and you’re having fun, who cares, have fun. Just understand that you don’t have a “poker bankroll”, what you have is a “Poker budget”

if you improve to becoming even a slightly winning player, now you can discuss based on your winning percentage, what a good Bankroll management system would be for your game.

Really hope this helps all the people confused by this.


P.s.
If you disagree with this, you might be a losing player..haha(seriously though)

Good point of course but the thread isn't for losing players, it's to help winning players claw back their bankroll because sometimes the bad luck brings it down a bit.

 

[fa1920]

Totally true, I have no control over the bankroll and I am a total loser.

 

[sryulaw]

I prefer to say that I am an investor player, every tournament paid, every dollar lost was an experience for my game, and for my bankroll. even if it is still negative.

 

[rckstr2b]

Good point of course but the thread isn't for losing players, it's to help winning players claw back their bankroll because sometimes the bad luck brings it down a bit.

I started the thread. I’m pretty sure I know what it’s about. I was clarifying for people that were confused, kind of like you... haha

 

[David macdonald]

I started the thread. I’m pretty sure I know what it’s about. I was clarifying for people that were confused, kind of like you... haha

Ok fair enough

 

[Smokewood]

Been seeing a lot of questions about bankroll management, and how much bankroll should you start out with if you’re a beginner, or even intermediate player.

I’m going to answer once a for all this difficult question:

There’s no such thing as bankroll management for losing players!!!!!!

If you are not a “winning” player, meaning you consistently don’t win more than you lose, no matter how much your starting bankroll is, it will only decrease over time if you don’t improve your game.
If you’re a losing player, and you’re having fun, who cares, have fun. Just understand that you don’t have a “poker bankroll”, what you have is a “Poker budget”

if you improve to becoming even a slightly winning player, now you can discuss based on your winning percentage, what a good Bankroll management system would be for your game.

Really hope this helps all the people confused by this.


P.s.
If you disagree with this, you might be a losing player..haha(seriously though)

Another way of saying this would be... Without proper BRM, you'll never be a winning player. :elefant:

 

[antonis32123]

If someone plays for fun and he has money he could have a far more flexible bankroll than the others . But if you play for fun but you don't have much money or if you play seriously but you are a losing player , in my opinion , bankroll management , even better , strict BRM , is necessary Or else you're gonna have to deal with problems sooner or later , these gonna spoil the fun of the game .

 

[r21sp]

я думаю что насчет 150-400 бай-инов ты преувеличил! по моему мнению 100-150 бай инов вполне достаточно для начинающего игрока!

 

[rckstr2b]

Another way of saying this would be... Without proper BRM, you'll never be a winning player. :elefant:

Untrue,
Brm will never make you a winning player if you don’t become a strong player that can take advantage of weaker players. That is literally the only way to consistently win at poker....study, study, then study some more. And when you get that figured out, you move up stakes and the study cycle starts over.
Poker is a game of edges, the less edge you have, the lower your win percentage will be over time

 

[masik6]

I think if you want to raise your bankroll you should put a limit on the game said to myself that the session will last 2 hours and played all the time and emerged independently plus or not.

 

[Pharaoh39]

So when are you going to post up your stats?

 

[rckstr2b]

Ok fair enough

[emoji38]

 

[rckstr2b]

If someone plays for fun and he has money he could have a far more flexible bankroll than the others . But if you play for fun but you don't have much money or if you play seriously but you are a losing player , in my opinion , bankroll management , even better , strict BRM , is necessary Or else you're gonna have to deal with problems sooner or later , these gonna spoil the fun of the game .

Your definition of flexible bankroll is actually a bank account. Bankroll doesn’t usually refer to your net worth(maybe with pros?). It’s usually the money that is only set aside for poker, whether you won it, earned it at a job, stole it, doesn’t matter.
The type of player you described doesn’t need a bankroll, they need a budget. If you just pull money out of your personal bank account whenever you want to play poker, the money in your bank account is going to fluctuate up and down from daily life, bills, etc... if you haven’t defined exactly how much money you have dedicated to poker, how in Sam Hell will you ever use Bankroll management when it’s based off a percentage of your bankroll.
Played smaller games to conserve your money is not really BRM, it’s called budgeting.
It really surprises me how few people understand a very basic concept.

-Bankroll management requires 2 major ingredients:
-a bankroll.
-be a winning player
Need one to have the other

 

[bmw1983kaz]

Obvious thread is obvious. You cannot win at poker without good bankroll management.

This.

 

[TeUnit]

Yep, bankroll is a function of roi, and if you have a negative roi your bankroll should be infinite.

 

[karl coakley]

I think bankroll management is for winning players, but it is certainly also a step towards becoming a winning player for people that are not.

I don't see how you can become or continue to be a winning player if you don't have strict management of your money.

 

[David macdonald]

I think bankroll management is for winning players, but it is certainly also a step towards becoming a winning player for people that are not.

I don't see how you can become or continue to be a winning player if you don't have strict management of your money.

Yes I agree with you, you can't afford to go crazy however you can win big unless you play big. I like to build up my cash and play big tournaments. However there's a cut off limit I know when to stop. In saying that all my cash is generated through freerolls, I then play big and if I loose I just go back to freerolls so it costs me nothing. It's a win win situation.

 

[rckstr2b]

If you are new to this thread, please read the earlier posts before posting. So many people are posting garbage advice. The advice I payed out is from winning players. If you’re not one, there’s a good chance you don’t know what the f you’re talking about. Don’t be pig headed, learn something and read. Maybe you’ll find the error of your ways.
Also, if you’re primarily a freeroll player, it’s unlikely you’re a winning player. Winning players want profitable games, freerolls are not usually big enough to attract good players. Food for thought?

 

[Pharaoh39]

You still haven't proven you're a winning player.