77 and 88??

[Tmoney999]

Pocket 77 and 88 I have found over my time of trying to learn this complex game are the absolute hardest hands to play. First of all they are very deceiving preflop, when you pick them up you automatically feel like you have a decent hand In lots of spots in the past I have found myself playing them from many positions at the table. Now a days I feel like there is only a very few spots to play them profitably, and I still haven't found out what those spots are exactly.

If you do happen to call preflop, you never really feel like your hand is good postflop, unless you flop a set, which in that case is a golden moment. Flopping a set rarely happens, and if your play a hand to consistently to set mine, it doesn't seem like the greatest spot to be in. After a flop your most likely going to find over cards, if not a couple, there probably is going to be one. What are you suppose to do when facing pressure bets with overcards out there? Depending on the player you are against, you might be facing bets or raises that 88 or 77 simply cannot handle. This makes it a guessing game throughout the hand. Even if the flop might comes out low 246 or something and you are against multiple players you still don't know if you could be good or dominated. All in preflop with these hands seem to be a dicey situation as well, your best situation is if your opponent has a under pair, which if your likely to get that amount of money in, your opponent wouldn't have such a hand. So 50 50 preflop all in is the most likely and who really likes that spot, maybe really lucky players, but i'm not the luckiest in these spots. I have been finding myself folding this hand more often then not in my later years and just leaving it alone, I will play it now and again in some very premium spots but not to often. Overall, the hand seems to me to be very weak, vulnerable, and enticing, which in my opinion is not the greatest make up for a playable hand.


If someone took the time to read this whole post, what are you experiences with 77 or 88? Do u pay them regularly? and is to set mine usually or do you have a more grand plan after a flop? What is your general opinion and thought about the hands?

 

[kraemer]

Great hands, but tricky ones... and difficult to play online, because after the flop you will need a good read on your opponent to go to the river with overcards outs there...

I would rather play them less often and then aggressively. You will not want to be in a multiway pot with these hands. But against 1 opponent you can often buy the pot after the flop with a c-bet because your opponent missed the flop.

 

[ChickenArise]

They are plus EV but not by a large margin. I've seen them played well as a 3 bet iso jam with 25-30 BB when you still have a little fold equity possible, but I wouldnt want to end up all in preflop versus 2 opponents with them.

Betting all in with them is one thing, but I try to avoid calling off my stack with these hands in most cases.

 

[Transcendence]

I think for every 77 or 88 when the flop 236 are your 99 and up! Yes I many times paid 99 and 88 pockets above JJ or 1010! Yes, I play them very carefully because for each pocket there may be a pocket higher.

 

[yoejslattery]

Set mining is really the thing to do with them. After that, they are bluff catchers or a hand to turn into a bluff.

 

[Elisondjp]

anything low on the hand and hard to call preflop depends a lot on your chips

 

[Tmoney999]

Set mining is really the thing to do with them. After that, they are bluff catchers or a hand to turn into a bluff.

I agree with this heavily, hard to play this hand if its not set up on the flop, bluff catching just becomes a guessing game for the most part, something i don't love doing very often. Turning the hand into a bluff could be one of the best ways to play them in my opinion but still risky on the best days where your reads are very good. People tend to just calling station me, one of the reasons I get absolute max value for most my big hands on most occasions.

 

[tmsr]

I tend to limp in to the see the flop on hands like this, depending on position and then play it depending on how many people are in the hand.

 

[BobbyMorton]

If you can see the flop and take it from there.

 

[Zvezda kz]

Analysis is the best lesson for us. You are on the right track, gaining experience and will be happy.
Experience, son of difficult mistakes.

 

[COMIRRR]

It is a dangerous hand but I generally go to see the flop if it is not a raise before me and with a little luck I can get a strong hand

 

[rigor mortis]

They are only as good as the opposition lets them. Sometimes you're the dog and sometimes you're the tree

 

[vini127]

It really depends on my stack size when playing them in mtt's, and also position. When short stacked I like shoving in late positions.
When deep stacked I'd rather call and se a flop or just fold em.

 

[Deedgee]

What's so difficult about holding mid-pairs is that you're almost positive that you have the best hand before the flop, which is an assumption that could obviously be very wrong, and there aren't many flops that are good for such hands. Even if the flop cards are lower than the middle pair, it's hard to know where you're at if your opponent takes the betting lead after the flop. It's hard to feel good about a middle pair after the flop unless you hit a set.

 

[MrPokerVerse]

Would think JJ would be harder than those two pocket pairs. Depends how many come into the hand as you bound to have overs on the flop. Isolating the hand it plays better, besides a set mine. Should be a easy hand to get away from, if you not getting the right answers to question you are asking.

 

[vov4ik]

I play these cards very carefully when the game is not very big bet because 99-1010 is even stronger against such cards and I often do not play 77-88, so I play them carefully and see that the flop is some coincidence and then I decide to play or fold!

 

[tmsr]

I tend to limp in to the see the flop on hands like this, depending on position and then play it depending on how many people are in the hand.

I actually got this hand playing last night, had 8 8 in the BB and flopped a set. Ending up knocking the person out of the tourny because they went all in on the river. Can't remember what they had, I think two pair.

 

[kowrip]

Middle pairs can be tricky, but you can learn play them profitably. Note that I don't play micros or free rolls so I generally see much tighter play. I will generally raise 77+ from EP in a fairly tight game. Obviously, flopping a set puts you in a huge position. If over cards hit the flop, which is likely, your c-bet could still win the pot since your opponents will be putting you on a tight range from EP. It's a little easier to play these hands if the flop shows a pair plus a card lower than your pair. I could see how it would be a lot tougher to play these hands in micros/free rolls since players are generally going to be calling a lot looser.

 

[Lorpugo]

I play it only in late position and if I do not hit set I am done with the hand on the flop

 

[Rahatis]

88 rules. I think I have made more money with 88 than AA.

 

[JBGoode]

I would argue, they are very simple to play post flop. The question is, Are we ahead preflop when we are facing an open....

For me this is all about stack size and food equity preflop. Chances are, after the flop we will be behind most of the time. So if that's the case. What are our odds of hitting a set? Well the answer to that question is 12 to 1. Generally if I feel I'm behind I will only call if I can win 15x the amount I need to call. In other words take the amount you need to call, and multiply it by 15. If that number is less then the smallest amount in the hand. (Either your stack, or the opener stack most of the time) it's actually a profitable call to see a flop for the pure purpose of set mining....

If I think I'm ahead, or I'm short stacked (25BBs or less) I'm just jamming. If have a huge stack against a relatively small stack (I have around 80-100BBs, and Vil has around 20-30BBs.) Im 3Betting, and CBetting on most flops.

 

[Ryan Laplante]

77 and 88 are strong enough hands that they are open raises from UTG in cash games, but are on the weakest part of that.

Certainly can be tough to play.

 

[Sintubai]

If it's an acceptable value call for your amount, it might be good to see the flop! I like to call sometimes, depending on position and opponent in some cases .. GL!

 

[Tmoney999]

88 rules. I think I have made more money with 88 than AA.

Horrible misleading comment, don't post such trash in my threads please.

 

[mpelletier92]

I will limp on late position with those hands but other than that it's a fold for me.