Blobweird123
CC's very own Dead Head
Silver Level
This.
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This.
Michael Paler
Legend
Silver Level
dictionary.reference.com
gam·bling [gam-bling]
noun
1. the activity or practice of playing at a game of chance for money or other stakes.
2. the act or practice of risking the loss of something important by taking a chance or acting recklessly: If you don't back up your data, that's gambling.
Collins dictionary;
noun
the act or process of playing games of chance to win money ⇒ He thinks gambling is wrong. ⇒ Gambling is a form of entertainment. ⇒ He likes gambling.
freedictionary.com
gam·ble (gmbl) (Ed. no specific resource for "gambling" only "gamble")
v. gam·bled, gam·bling, gam·bles
v.intr.
1.
a. To bet on an uncertain outcome, as of a contest.
b. To play a game of chance for stakes.
2. To take a risk in the hope of gaining an advantage or a benefit.
3. To engage in reckless or hazardous behavior: You are gambling with your health by continuing to smoke.
v.tr.
1. To put up as a stake in gambling; wager.
2. To expose to hazard; risk: gambled their lives in a dangerous rescue mission.
n.
1. A bet, wager, or other gambling venture.
2. An act or undertaking of uncertain outcome; a risk: I took a gamble that stock prices would rise.
Oxford dictionaries
gamble (Ed. no specific resource for "gambling" only "gamble")
Syllabification: (gam·ble)
Pronunciation: /ˈgambəl/
verb
[no object]
1play games of chance for money; bet:
she was fond of gambling on cards and horses
[with object] bet (a sum of money) on a game of chance:
he was gambling every penny he had on the spin of a wheel
2take risky action in the hope of a desired result:
[with clause]:
the British could only gamble that something would turn up
noun
[usually in singular]
an act of gambling; an enterprise undertaken or attempted with a risk of loss and a chance of profit or success.
Now, let us look at chance; We must, as that is what makes it gambling; playing a game of chance for money.
freedictionary.com
chance (chns)
n.
1.
a. The unknown and unpredictable element in happenings that seems to have no assignable cause. (Ed. Does that sound like poker? Not to me.)
b. A force assumed to cause events that cannot be foreseen or controlled; luck: Chance will determine the outcome.
2. The likelihood of something happening; possibility or probability. Often used in the plural: Chances are good that you will win. Is there any chance of rain?
3. An accidental or unpredictable event.
4. A favorable set of circumstances; an opportunity: a chance to escape.
5. A risk or hazard; a gamble: took a chance that the ice would hold me.
6. Games A raffle or lottery ticket.
7. Baseball An opportunity to make a putout or an assist that counts as an error if unsuccessful.
adj.
Caused by or ascribable to chance; unexpected, random, or casual: a chance encounter; a chance result.
v. chanced, chanc·ing, chanc·es
v.intr.
To come about by chance; occur: It chanced that the train was late that day.
v.tr.
To take the risk or hazard of: not willing to chance it.
Phrasal Verb:
chance on/upon
To find or meet accidentally; happen upon: While in Paris we chanced on two old friends.
Idioms:
by chance
1. Without plan; accidentally: They met by chance on a plane.
2. Possibly; perchance: Is he, by chance, her brother?
on the off chance
In the slight hope or possibility.
dictionary.reference.com
chance [chans, chahns] Show IPA noun, verb, chanced, chanc·ing, adjective
noun
1.
the absence of any cause of events that can be predicted, understood, or controlled: often personified or treated as a positive agency: Chance governs all. (Ed. Does that sound like poker? Not to me.)
2.
luck or fortune: a game of chance.
3.
a possibility or probability of anything happening: a fifty-percent chance of success.
4.
an opportune or favorable time; opportunity: Now is your chance.
5.
Baseball. an opportunity to field the ball and make a put-out or assist.
Oxford dictionaries
chance
Syllabification: (chance)
Pronunciation: /CHans/
Translate chance | into French | into German | into Italian | into Spanish
noun
1a possibility of something happening:
a chance of victory
there is little chance of his finding a job
(chances) the probability of something happening:
he played down his chances of becoming chairman
[in singular] an opportunity to do or achieve something:
I gave her a chance to answer
a ticket in a raffle or lottery.
Baseball an opportunity to make a defensive play, which if missed counts as an error:
541 straight chances without an error
2the occurrence and development of events in the absence of any obvious design: (Ed. Does that sound like poker? One last time: not to me.)
he met his brother by chance
what a lucky chance that you are here
adjective
[attributive]
fortuitous; accidental:
a chance meeting
verb
1 [no object] do something by accident or without design:
if they chanced to meet
(chance upon/on) find or see by accident:
he chanced upon an interesting advertisement
2 [with object] informal do (something) despite its being dangerous or of uncertain outcome:
she waited a few seconds and chanced another look
If something is by chance or not appears to mean without cause or apparent design. I have already contended that poker is mathematically based and therefore we know why you made it as well as why you did not. It did not just happen; there was a skill involved. We all know that there is more skill than chance or luck in poker. Thus my assertion, poker is not gambling.
I am sure that neither you, Blob, nor you Reptar, will accuse me of simply "using semantics" here, but mark my words; someone will. They do every time. Lets see if I am right guys, lol.
And Rep, I have to say, merriam-webster should know better. They have let me down before; I have heard that the printed editions do not always match the online edition. I do not have one, so I do not know for sure. I always check definitions at several sites to back up my conclusions and form a logical consensus to arrive at the best definition taking all into account. What a pain, eh? And I have to do that in my job. It just sucks, lol. Damn lawyers.
S
ScottishMatt
Legend
Silver Level
Wow. What a mess.
What I fail to see is why you are posting this on a poker forum. If you want to change the law and the way society perceives our game then this isn't the place to do it.
Now I think I'll limit my involvement in this thread to this single post. As a closing note - I think you need to stop giving a **** Michael
What I fail to see is why you are posting this on a poker forum. If you want to change the law and the way society perceives our game then this isn't the place to do it.
Now I think I'll limit my involvement in this thread to this single post. As a closing note - I think you need to stop giving a **** Michael
Michael Paler
Legend
Silver Level
No, you are correct. I have other motives that I choose not to share here at this time. Those motives require research.
And no, it is not to counter relatives seeking to have me seek professional help for a gambling addiction, lmfao. (Can you believe that? Great counter point, huh?)
But you are correct; what a mess. I knew it would be.
Michael Paler
Legend
Silver Level
As I believe in freedom and democracy, I think that is a valid, if not totally diplomatic (lol), response; if you are gambling or not gambling. It's your business, period.
Too bad Sheldon Adelson doesn't see it that way, huh?
Michael Paler
Legend
Silver Level
I intend to milk this cow fully, lol.
TheKid84
Legend
Silver Level
Well lets make this easy so everyone can continue on.
You're view is that it's not gambling.
Everyone else as pretty much stated they feel it is gambling.
I've just summed up the entire thread, and I don't know how much more "milking" will do for the subject or anyone's health for that matter. Lets move on.
Michael Paler
Legend
Silver Level
Well, for one thing, I simply cannot agree that "everyone else" has agreed it is gambling. Clearly, not at all if you read all of the posts. As for moving on, if it is so so bad, why are you reading this and posting in it? No offense, certainly know that if I have upset you or anyone with the subject itself by bringing it out into the open, that was not my intent. I cannot apologise for doing so as I am just entering into an honest debate on a valid subject. It is related to poker, the industry as a whole, current restrictions/banning of poker based on what I and many others consider to be a false belief...the list goes on and on. So I feel it is very appropriate and makes total sense. Simply ignoring the issue will not make it go away.
The only side whose health it would appear to bad for, IMHO, are those who have simply closed their mind and insist it is gambling without proper cause or reasoning to back that up. I have not done this; I have backed up my viewpoint on the matter. I think I have given an excellent argument that it is not gambling, yet I am not forcing anyone to take my side. Not at all. I am looking for honest and sincere counterpoints that might actually prove me wrong. That being said, this post was originally more leaning towards those who know it is not gambling but have a hard time explaining it. People who vehemently disagree have turned it into a "prove it" type debate which I am more than happy to oblige. Otherwise, if I do not, it makes that thread topic worthless.
So far, that has not happened. But I am happy to agree to disagree based solely on belief and personal opinion, as we are all friends here. Yes, I will take a look at any evidence anyone chooses to present that "proves" me wrong and see if it indeed does. Often such "proof" of poker being gambling just ends up coming down to personal opinion. I think I am backing my opinion up with actual facts.
W
WhineyLobster
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Ya even beyond that hes admitted multiple times that chance is involved.
his argument is simply that because in the long run a skilled player MAY make more money than a non skilled player...that its all skill.
or simply since there is skill involved....that its not a game of chance. hes confused.
probabilities do not cause outcomes. hitting heads on a coin flip is 5050...that does not mean that 50% of your flips will be heads... in fact you can flip a coin 1 million times and get heads 1 million times. each flip is independent of the last flip. on the 1 millionth and first flip...are the odds much lower that it will be heads? no...its 5050.
poker is a game of chance because there is a randomized deck order which has a significant role in the game. you cannot take this away. even if you played every hand face up...there is still CHANCE involved because of the independent actor outside the player's control...the randomized deck.
his argument is simply that because in the long run a skilled player MAY make more money than a non skilled player...that its all skill.
or simply since there is skill involved....that its not a game of chance. hes confused.
probabilities do not cause outcomes. hitting heads on a coin flip is 5050...that does not mean that 50% of your flips will be heads... in fact you can flip a coin 1 million times and get heads 1 million times. each flip is independent of the last flip. on the 1 millionth and first flip...are the odds much lower that it will be heads? no...its 5050.
poker is a game of chance because there is a randomized deck order which has a significant role in the game. you cannot take this away. even if you played every hand face up...there is still CHANCE involved because of the independent actor outside the player's control...the randomized deck.
Michael Paler
Legend
Silver Level
No, you are correct. Chance in everything. Chances a meteor will hit me in five minutes. Chance UFO will land in washington tomorrow.
Yet skill greatly diminishes chance. True games of chance have no skill whatsoever. roulette, craps, etc; Not poker. So, personal opinion, that is OK. Proof? No. I explained chance variables in poker. Every single game has a chance aspect.
Cannot say then that every single game is gambling. At least I cannot agree to that.
Again, this post was originally intended for those who already know it is not gambling. Most everyone else has just jumped in and insisted on trying to prove a negative. You cannot do that.
But many keep trying.
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W
WhineyLobster
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Your argument is based on this.... it is false.... thus your argument fails.
There are games that have some amount of skill that are still gambling. why is this so hard for you to comprehend?
Michael Paler
Legend
Silver Level
You insist on proving a negative. Just insist. I said we could agree to disagree, clearly this is not enough for you. You want to argue for the sake of arguing. I have said this is your opinion. You are welcome to it, my friend. But continuing arguing that opinion while you are trying to prove a negative is pointless.
If you are so sure you are correct, then why keep this up? Looks like you are trying to prove something that you cannot seem to. That is because you cannot prove a negative. But you can always start your own thread. That way you are proving a positive.
I will gladly pop in and take a look, let me know when you do.
Not a bad idea, you need 65 to join the freeroll club.
W
WhineyLobster
Enthusiast
Silver Level
its not an opinion..... there are games of chance where a skilled player will win more than a nonskilled player...
blackjack
video poker
sports betting...
many many more. these are all gambling.
Im not proving a negative...im proving that the basis of your argument is FALSE. there is a difference.
blackjack
video poker
sports betting...
many many more. these are all gambling.
Im not proving a negative...im proving that the basis of your argument is FALSE. there is a difference.
W
WhineyLobster
Enthusiast
Silver Level
it should also be noted that YOU are the one trying to prove a negative.
you are trying to prove that poker IS NOT gambling. thats a negative. so in effect you just proved that your argument is impossible to prove. thank you.
you are trying to prove that poker IS NOT gambling. thats a negative. so in effect you just proved that your argument is impossible to prove. thank you.
Reptar7
Visionary
Silver Level
So you are arguing that because some definitions do include the word chance, and you feel there is no chance in poker, that poker therefore is not gambling?
Yet in your post above, you state that: "We all know that there is more skill than chance or luck in poker." This reads to me as an admission that there is some chance involved in poker. Therefore I can spin every gambling/gamble definition you just produced against your argument, as in poker you both wager money or property on a game and there also is chance involved, as you indicated in your statement.
As for the word chance, there is chance in poker, but the two words of course are not synonymous.
The word poker is defined using the word bet:
Poker
2
: any of several card games in which a player bets that the value of his or her hand is greater than that of the hands held by others, in which each subsequent player must either equal or raise the bet or drop out, and in which the player holding the highest hand at the end of the betting wins the pot
And the word bet is defined using the word gamble as a synonym, and also mentions "the outcome of a future event":
Bet
Verb
Risk something, usually a sum of money, against someone else's on the basis of the outcome of a future event, such as the result of a...: "betting on horses"; "I would be prepared to bet that what he really wanted was to settle down"; "most people would bet their life savings on this prospect"
Noun
An act of risking a sum of money in this way.
Synonyms
verb. wager - stake - gamble
noun. wager - stake - betting
Based on that evidence which seems to positively show a correlation between the terms poker, bet, chance, and gamble, I can only conclude that your argument appears flawed.
Michael Paler
Legend
Silver Level
I am proving it is a game mostly based in skill (A positive). This means it is not a game of chance by definition and law. The original post assumed this to be true and offered explanations to give others so that they might understand.
This is why you are having such a hard time and failing miserably; go read post number 128 instead of ignoring it. You should quit while you are ahead. You clearly just like to argue and troll me. I mean, your first post gave "proof" that I was wrong by speculating I might just have a gambling problem because I did not agree with you(LOL). That was your counterpoint, basically saying that:
"Poker is gambling and you might have a gambling problem if you do not agree with me".
WOW. I shot that down after you then posted a 3,603 word, senseless set of ramblings, that repeated your accusation that I have a gambling problem for disagreeing with you. So now you are simply twisting words to make yourself feel like you are winning something. What, I have no idea. You must, however.
If all this sounds familiar, I have already posted it to you once. You seem to have forgotten that. Or there could be some painfully obvious reasons for this.
Trolling is only one.
WVHillbilly
Legend
Silver Level
Hope you got what you wanted. I would suggest a slight modification to the tone of your posts or they may not last so long next time.
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