Unfair PS tournament rule

[Divebitch]

Corrected my post, no idea why I screwed up and typed side pot the first time....

See, you were right the first time. Sorry I alerted you at the tourney yesterday to my confusion by your & Zach's posts.

Okay, so I think I get it now. The hand winner had over 1600 chips to start. He beat the pair with 1600 chips first. But that fact was of no consequence as far as her finishing next. All that mattered was that the 1500 chip OP finished in the same hand.

And thanks JD: "The shorter stack can never eliminate the larger stack on a single hand, so in the case where both short and middle are removed at the same time the extra credit is given to the middle stack that was eliminated by a larger stack but would never have been eliminated by the shorter stack."

That's what I thought. I was just trying to envision the scenario in the OP. If the hand winner had just 500 chips before the hand, what would happen? He'd win the main pot of 1500 (500 from each of you), and the sidepot is just the OP (with 1500 and a set) & the other woman (with a pair) - the OP would have 1000 chips in the side pot and win 2000 (meaning just 1000 from the woman with the pair & 1600), and she'd be left with 100 chips. Is this correct?

 

[Jack Daniels]

She had 1600 in chips while I only had 1500.

For sake of example below I'm going to pretend that the big stack that beat both of them had 2000 chips.

I was just trying to envision the scenario in the OP. If the hand winner had just 500 chips before the hand, what would happen? He'd win the main pot of 1500 (500 from each of you), and the sidepot is just the OP (with 1500 and a set) & the other woman (with a pair) - the OP would have 1000 chips in the side pot and win 2000 (meaning just 1000 from the woman with the pair & 1600), and she'd be left with 100 chips. Is this correct?

Big stack (BS) = 2000
Mid stack (MS) = 1600
Small stack (SS) = 1500

Main pot contains 1500 chips from all three. SS is all in and can only win the main pot. Main Pot = 4500 chips

Side pot contains MS's last 100 chips plus 100 more chips from BS. MS can possibly win both side pot and main pot. Side Pot = 200 chips.

At showdown MS and BS determine side pot winner. Someone gets those $200 chips, then the mainpot winner is determined and someone then gets those $4500 chips.

 

[bbgold]

Placing is Always by chip count when All In.

I have never seen it done any differently.

Sometimes this can work to your advantage if low stacked and you win the hand, or sitout to let someone else get eliminated.

Hand strength doesn't matter, as you both Lost.

As with any hand it does not matter who had the second highest hand, unless there is a side pot where you have More chips than another player.
Anytime you have Less chips than any other player and Lose you just Lose, there is no Second best.

Tournament payouts have always been based on chip count when multiple players are All In as far as I know.

Good Luck and Good Games!

 

[Divebitch]

FYP for the scenario I just gave. It will be the best way for me to be sure I understand it. So let's say.....

Big stack (BS) = 1600 (worst hand with a pair)
Mid stack (MS) = 1500 (the OP with the set)
Small stack (SS) = 500 (he is the hand winner with the straight)

Main pot contains 500 chips from all three. SS is all in and can only win the main pot. Main Pot = 1500 chips

Side pot contains MS's last 1000 chips plus 1100 more chips from BS. MS can possibly win both side pot and main pot. Side Pot = 2100 chips. If BS wins, MS is eliminated. If BS loses, 100 chips are returned to her, and no one is eliminated.

At showdown MS and BS determine side pot winner. Someone gets those $2000 chips, then the mainpot winner is determined and someone then gets those $1500 chips.

Is that all correct? That and this:

"Okay, so I think I get it now. The hand winner had over 1600 chips to start. He beat the pair with 1600 chips first (the sidepot). But that fact was of no consequence as far as her finishing next. All that mattered was that the 1500 chip OP finished in the same hand."

Thanks again. Sorry for being so dense.

 

[Jack Daniels]

Side pot contains MS's last 1000 chips plus 1000 more chips from BS (It's only 1000 more from BS to cover the last 1000 of MS's bet). BS still has 100 chips left in front of him.

Minor correction above. And technically, even if BS had gotten all his chips in first and MS called off his last 1000, even then the 100 additional chips would have been returned to BS then the side pot of 2000 chips would be resolved.

MS can possibly win both side pot and main pot. Side Pot = 2000 chips. If BS wins, MS is eliminated. If BS loses, 100 chips are returned to her, and no one is eliminated.

Side pot correct to 2000, but otherwise yes. BS wins then MS is out. MS wins and BS remains with 100 chips.

At showdown MS and BS determine side pot winner. Someone gets those $2000 chips, then the mainpot winner is determined and someone then gets those $1500 chips.

Yes.

"Okay, so I think I get it now. The hand winner had over 1600 chips to start. He beat the pair with 1600 chips first (the sidepot). But that fact was of no consequence as far as her finishing next. All that mattered was that the 1500 chip OP finished in the same hand."

Yes.

Thanks again. Sorry for being so dense.

No worries, it's part of your charm.

 

[Divebitch]

Minor correction above. And technically, even if BS had gotten all his chips in first and MS called off his last 1000, even then the 100 additional chips would have been returned to BS then the side pot of 2000 chips would be resolved.

No worries, it's part of your charm.

Right, couldn't remember if they threw the BS all-in and returned it the leftovers. I guess they do unless he's the last to act, then they just give you call button. I think (how's that for charm? ).

 

[Zorba]

There's no such thing as 2nd place in a hand. You either have the best hand or a losing hand (this goes for each pot, so if there are side pots obviously multiple winning hands).

In this example there were 2 pots. One pot was between the 3 of you and one pot was between the other 2. The side pot is decided first, and you lose it. You are now eliminated. Then the player with the pair loses that hand and the rest of her chips to the straight. That means she's eliminated. That's the justification behind it and it's a standard rule in all tourneys, not just Pokerstars tourneys.

This, is correct and well explained.

Sorry, I have to disagree. Main pot is always last to be resolved. In fact, side pots are resolved in the reverse order they were created. So if you had:

Main pot: 4 players
Side pot 1: 3 players
Side pot 2: 2 players

Then side pot 2 would be resolved first followed by side pot 1 followed finally by the main pot. And the online sites do it this way as well.

http://www.homepokertourney.com/roberts-rules-of-poker.htm#SECTION_15_-_TOURNAMENTS

http://www.homepokertourney.com/allin_examples.htm

And it isn't about when a player was eliminated in the hand. The person that started the hand (at any table in the tournament even) with the most chips gets the higher finish. And it makes sense to do it that way as well. The shorter stack can never eliminate the larger stack on a single hand, so in the case where both short and middle are removed at the same time the extra credit is given to the middle stack that was eliminated by a larger stack but would never have been eliminated by the shorter stack.

In fact, this rule isn't just about sidepots either. This is also why they have hand-for-hand play on the bubble. When you're on the bubble playing hand-for-hand and one person is eliminated at each of three different tables to bust the bubble, of those three the one that started with the fewest chips will be the bubble boy and the other two will cash.

Correct again here, I think Zach just mixed it up accidentally

For sake of example below I'm going to pretend that the big stack that beat both of them had 2000 chips.


Big stack (BS) = 2000
Mid stack (MS) = 1600
Small stack (SS) = 1500

Main pot contains 1500 chips from all three. SS is all in and can only win the main pot. Main Pot = 4500 chips

Side pot contains MS's last 100 chips plus 100 more chips from BS. MS can possibly win both side pot and main pot. Side Pot = 200 chips.

At showdown MS and BS determine side pot winner. Someone gets those $200 chips, then the mainpot winner is determined and someone then gets those $4500 chips.

Correct again here JD.

 

[Jack Daniels]

Right, couldn't remember if they threw the BS all-in and returned it the leftovers. I guess they do unless he's the last to act, then they just give you call button. I think (how's that for charm? ).

Yep. If you have the largest stack and are the last to act, then you'd just be able to call. If you're in the middle of the action then you could shove in. If you do and you are the largest stack still in, then the overage amount between your stack and that next stack will get returned to you the pots contested.

 

[zachvac]

Correct again here, I think Zach just mixed it up accidentally

No pretty sure I was completely wrong .

Basically I sort of justified the rule that way to myself and it makes perfect sense, basically because once the main pot is done the players with no chips left can not win any more side pots and thus if another player now goes bust in a side pot the player with no opportunity to put money in the side pot goes bust first. No matter which way you put it though it makes sense that the smallest chip stack is the one to go out first if two go out on the same hand.

 

[Xyphon]

Wow, Thanks for this head up. Probably something I should have known, but a good point. If they had more money than you it doesn't matter if it is one dollar or a thousand. They had more when you went out so you get the lower position. I will have to remember that towards the bubble and calling someone all-in. Again, thanks for that heads-up!

 

[GDRileyx]

If two people go out on the same hand, they should be considered to have tied, and split any prize money 50/50.

 

[zachvac]

If two people go out on the same hand, they should be considered to have tied, and split any prize money 50/50.

And if I have a set, I shouldn't lose. Unfortunately the poker sites don't see it my way...

 

[Poker Orifice]

Texguy... totally standard situation here... not just some unfair thing by pokerstars.
Knowing that 'he who has more chips when or if a couple players are KO'd in a multiway pot'.. is something that you always need to keep in mind ie. you're on the bubble of a sng and shortstk shoves... C.L. reraises A.I., you've got great and decide to call,knowing that if your hand doesn't hold and take the pot down, you've got the backup of knowing that the CL's might which would put you ITM. (if certain situation warranted it).