duggs
Killing me softly
Silver Level
is there an intrinsic value to not being an asshole to people?
is there an intrinsic value to not being an asshole to people?
Debi
Forum Admin
Administrator
We are talking about live tournaments which you say you don't play.
I have played in tons of them and been a witness to this many times. Almost every live tournament player I know - and most of them play for a living - recognize this as being horrible for the game that we love to play.
It is not about running out of fish - it is about reducing the number of them which nobody should want to do.
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HooDooKoo
Visionary
Platinum Level
As a general rule, sure. At the poker table, however, if a player thinks that being an asshole increases his/her EV then I'm fine with it. Obviously, I can only speak for myself, though.
-HooDooKoo
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HooDooKoo
Visionary
Platinum Level
We are talking about live tournaments which you say you don't play.
I have played in tons of them and been a witness to this many times. Almost every live tournament player I know - and most of them play for a living - recognize this as being horrible for the game that we love to play.
It is not about running out of fish - it is about reducing the number of them which nobody should want to do.
In my experience, the fish don't stop playing because of how they've been treated (in one particular session or in the long-term). They stop playing because: 1. they run out of money; or 2. they finally come to the realization that they're just giving their money away.
-HooDooKoo
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Ranny
Legend
Bronze Level
Totally disagree, your standard fish enjoys playing poker in a comfortable enviroment, they are willing to lose as long as they enjoy themselves. If they are uncomfortable, they will leave and not come back.
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HooDooKoo
Visionary
Platinum Level
You can't disagree with my experience unless you were present, which is highly unlikely. You can disagree with my conclusion if you'd like, but your opinion is no more valid that mine --- and I stand by mine
Thanks for your input, though.
-HooDooKoo
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HooDooKoo
Visionary
Platinum Level
There's also an old saying "An apple a day keeps the doctor away". Conventional wisdom isn't always true --- and, in fact, is often fallacious. As I said before, in my experience, tapping on the glass has no impact on the fish (poker fish or real fish).
-HooDooKoo
IPlay
Bum hunts 25NL
Silver Level
I really enjoy reading your post, lol.
On topic though, I think this strategy would probably be more efficient in a tournament setting rather than a cash game.
Could be effective in both but greater in tournaments because they can't just leave if they get mad, only shove
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Quasimodo
Rock Star
Silver Level
I'm more tilted by the guy who not only plays every hand, but raises every hand. I'm pretty thick-skinned about what any one says, even though its easy to dislike some things they say to other players. The guy who keeps yapping and berating others play is always cool to see get KOed. That kid who river'd the royal against quad A's in 08 wsop fits the bill of one I'd of liked to have seen get busted. Sometimes the poker gods are not only fickle, they're downright mean.
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Debi
Forum Admin
Administrator
I am pretty sure your experience is not the norm which makes it less relevant.
I come to my conclusion based on years of playing tournaments, discussions with many others who play live tournaments for a living, and conversations with tournament directors and dealers.
Maybe things are different outside of a Vegas - but here there are loads of recreational players who normally don't play much - and could easily be put off playing by players trolling them and making them uncomfortable.
PoKeRFoRNiA
Legend
Bronze Level
I just got knocked out of the home game tournament but jesus christ, is it really offensive or insulting to say "well, at least you made your straight. "? I just like joking around and being social.
It was $52($40 buy-in, $7 entry + $5 bounty) tournament. At second blind level where blinds are at 50/100, I had 6k stack and this girl(same girl who lost to a guy who had KJ) and I were involved in a hand. I raised from utg with pocket Jacks to 300. She calls from button with TQs spades. Flop comes out Jh 9h 6d. I c-bet out 500, she repops it to $1500, I repopped it to $4k, she moves all-in, I obviously call. Turn comes out 6, which gave me a full house, and then river came out 8. I won and took her chips. As I was picking up chips while people were talking about it since it was a big pot early in tournament, I just said "well, at least she made her straight." and table was smiling n giggling but she was saying "har har har, very funny". I told her, "hey, I was just joking around. We both got what we wanted. You wanted straight, i wanted full house, and we both got there!!!!!! " She got angry at me and tells me to shut up. I told her "hey, I'm sorry if I was rude or offensive to you but I didn't think joking around that you at least lost with a straight can be mean." Do people nowadays lack social skills and humor?
Is it just me or is it that saying trolling comments can also be offensive? Btw, she rebought once and donked it off to another player with middle pocket pair vs someone's top pair. You can only rebuy once in this tournament.
"? I just like joking around and being social.It was $52($40 buy-in, $7 entry + $5 bounty) tournament. At second blind level where blinds are at 50/100, I had 6k stack and this girl(same girl who lost to a guy who had KJ) and I were involved in a hand. I raised from utg with pocket Jacks to 300. She calls from button with TQs spades. Flop comes out Jh 9h 6d. I c-bet out 500, she repops it to $1500, I repopped it to $4k, she moves all-in, I obviously call. Turn comes out 6, which gave me a full house, and then river came out 8. I won and took her chips. As I was picking up chips while people were talking about it since it was a big pot early in tournament, I just said "well, at least she made her straight.
" and table was smiling n giggling but she was saying "har har har, very funny". I told her, "hey, I was just joking around. We both got what we wanted. You wanted straight, i wanted full house, and we both got there!!!!!! " She got angry at me and tells me to shut up. I told her "hey, I'm sorry if I was rude or offensive to you but I didn't think joking around that you at least lost with a straight can be mean." Do people nowadays lack social skills and humor?Is it just me or is it that saying trolling comments can also be offensive? Btw, she rebought once and donked it off to another player with middle pocket pair vs someone's top pair. You can only rebuy once in this tournament.
Blobweird123
CC's very own Dead Head
Silver Level
I just got knocked out of the home game tournament but jesus christ, is it really offensive or insulting to say "well, at least you made your straight.
It was $52($40 buy-in, $7 entry + $5 bounty) tournament. At second blind level where blinds are at 50/100, I had 6k stack and this girl(same girl who lost to a guy who had KJ) and I were involved in a hand. I raised from utg with pocket Jacks to 300. She calls from button with TQs spades. Flop comes out Jh 9h 6d. I c-bet out 500, she repops it to $1500, I repopped it to $4k, she moves all-in, I obviously call. Turn comes out 6, which gave me a full house, and then river came out 8. I won and took her chips. As I was picking up chips while people were talking about it since it was a big pot early in tournament, I just said "well, at least she made her straight.
Is it just me or is it that saying trolling comments can also be offensive? Btw, she rebought once and donked it off to another player with middle pocket pair vs someone's top pair. You can only rebuy once in this tournament.
You're just being an asshole to people who have money on the line. If I had money on the line and lost and you start saying this crap sure I'll go on tilt, but in a different way. The kind of way that would make me want to kick your ass in the parking lot. And I believe I gave the same response to your other thread about you being an asshole. GJ though! You really are crushing in that department!
Beanfacekilla
Legend
Silver Level
I just got knocked out of the home game tournament but jesus christ, is it really offensive or insulting to say "well, at least you made your straight.
It was $52($40 buy-in, $7 entry + $5 bounty) tournament. At second blind level where blinds are at 50/100, I had 6k stack and this girl(same girl who lost to a guy who had KJ) and I were involved in a hand. I raised from utg with pocket Jacks to 300. She calls from button with TQs spades. Flop comes out Jh 9h 6d. I c-bet out 500, she repops it to $1500, I repopped it to $4k, she moves all-in, I obviously call. Turn comes out 6, which gave me a full house, and then river came out 8. I won and took her chips. As I was picking up chips while people were talking about it since it was a big pot early in tournament, I just said "well, at least she made her straight.
Is it just me or is it that saying trolling comments can also be offensive? Btw, she rebought once and donked it off to another player with middle pocket pair vs someone's top pair. You can only rebuy once in this tournament.
I remember that other thread.
He slow rolled someone with aces, talked a bunch of trash.
A FWIW I think the content in this thread is pretty much a continuation of the other thread.
The OP obviously likes to try and tilt people and say things to make them mad.
I don't really care what you do OP. If you think this behavior is OK and +EV then continue.
However, I don't think it is very smart or mature. I don't do things like that.
That is all.
PoKeRFoRNiA
Legend
Bronze Level
If I bad beated someone and made a joke, then yes, it's very offensive. I just quietly take the chips. But I got my chips in as a favorite and held up. When I'm in the opposite side of the hand where I'm on a draw and lose but end up hitting my straight, I just laugh it out, say "well, at least I made my straight.
" and just rebuy. I don't get butthurt or upset over putting my money in behind and not winning the pot.But man, I didn't know joking around with "well, at least you made your straight/flush/etc" can be very offensive. I didn't think it was that big of a deal. I guess I will stop fooling around in the future. I guess joke is not really funny when someone loses chips.
Blobweird123
CC's very own Dead Head
Silver Level
If I bad beated someone and made a joke, then yes, it's very offensive. I just quietly take the chips. But I got my chips in as a favorite and held up. When I'm in the opposite side of the hand where I'm on a draw and lose but end up hitting my straight, I just laugh it out, say "well, at least I made my straight.
But man, I didn't know joking around with "well, at least you made your straight/flush/etc" can be very offensive. I didn't think it was that big of a deal. I guess I will stop fooling around in the future. I guess joke is not really funny when someone loses chips.
You put it in as a favorite and won, so why the hell do you have to criticize the other person? That's where i'm confused. They feel shitty enough losing a pot, but you have to be a douche and rub it in? Again, I would let it go in all seriousness, but in my head i'd be thinking I'd wanna beat your ass for being a little punk. That is all. Grow up and play poker and leave the shit talk at home.
Propane Goat
Grinder and paint make me the welder I ain't
Moderator
I'll argue that a typical recreational player that plays poker simply for fun cares about grinding the maximum profit out of every session about as much as people who play craps and blackjack, or even slots. Many people are willing to spend money on entertainment, and many do, and if those types of players who are at the tables simply to be social and have a good time are being faced with somebody ridiculing them with smartass comments how much fun do you think they're having then? I haven't played live yet, and I know that I'm a weak player without a lot of experience, but I know for sure I wouldn't put up with some jackass making smart remarks about all the mistakes I'm making because simply taking my money isn't enough for him.
I'm not an experienced player but IMO if you have to make people mad in order to beat them your game needs a lot of work, and I'm saying this in general, not to any one specific person.
I'm not an experienced player but IMO if you have to make people mad in order to beat them your game needs a lot of work, and I'm saying this in general, not to any one specific person.
PoKeRFoRNiA
Legend
Bronze Level
How is "well, at least you made your straight
" criticizing them? I never knew that is considered criticizing them. There was nothing wrong with her play btw.But at the same time, I do realize now that not everyone has a sense of humor and some people can get butthurt over it, especially when they lost their chips. Btw, I've put chips in on draws too so many times as semi-bluff, so there's nothing wrong with her play. I'm not criticizing any of her play because she was just semi-bluffing during early stage of the tournament, she just wanted to gamble and accumulate chips quickly as possible, as that's how I play also. And in fact, that's how I busted out of today's tournament. I semi-bluffed on diamond nut flush draw and didn't hit it against bottom two pairs.
Beanfacekilla
Legend
Silver Level
How is "well, at least you made your straight
But at the same time, I do realize now that not everyone has a sense of humor and some people can get butthurt over it, especially when they lost their chips. Btw, I've put chips in on draws too so many times as semi-bluff, so there's nothing wrong with her play. I'm not criticizing any of her play because she was just semi-bluffing during early stage of the tournament, she just wanted to gamble and accumulate chips quickly as possible, as that's how I play also. And in fact, that's how I busted out of today's tournament. I semi-bluffed on diamond nut flush draw and didn't hit it against bottom two pairs.
It is needling, and you know it. You won the hand, and needle someone after they get stacked.
It shows no class.
All it will do is make enemies.
Friends come and go, but enemies accumulate.
Blobweird123
CC's very own Dead Head
Silver Level
How is "well, at least you made your straight
But at the same time, I do realize now that not everyone has a sense of humor and some people can get butthurt over it, especially when they lost their chips. Btw, I've put chips in on draws too so many times as semi-bluff, so there's nothing wrong with her play. I'm not criticizing any of her play because she was just semi-bluffing during early stage of the tournament, she just wanted to gamble and accumulate chips quickly as possible, as that's how I play also. And in fact, that's how I busted out of today's tournament. I semi-bluffed on diamond nut flush draw and didn't hit it against bottom two pairs.
As bean already said, its needling. You didn't say it in a *Haha everyone laughs along* kinda way im sure. And what's with you saying butthurt constantly? That's pretty degrading as well. Did you come to this forum to learn and make friends, or as Bean said, to make enemies? If it's to learn and make friends, you'd prolly do better to stop telling people they're butthurt.
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RamdeeBen
Legend
Silver Level
Trolling and making bad recreational players feel idiotic about a way they played their hand is clearly bad, there's certainly no positive outcome. All you're doing is taking money out of the poker economy (granted you yourself are likely giving back the money to the economy anyway, so not so much a huge deal in that sense) If a recreational player has just busted a tournament and someone is saying stuff like "Well at least you made your straight lolol" why would someone want to come back, pay their hard earned money to be made to look a complete idiot?
This will only discourage them to play again, or worse - they come back next year a better poker player than yourself and you find you're now losing more money at the poker table.
This will only discourage them to play again, or worse - they come back next year a better poker player than yourself and you find you're now losing more money at the poker table.
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helpspb
Legend
Silver Level
You keep saying that you didn't realize people don't have a sense of humor. I for one think that I have a great sense of humor, but there's clearly nothing funny about your comment if you're the person who lost the money. Did you expect the girl would laugh it off?! If I was in your position, I'd be happy to win with the best hand and giggle on the side, but no further comments towards other person are necessary. If I didn't read your other thread maybe I'd believe that you're just trying to keep mood light and make jokes about the game. To me you seem rather arrogant. I'm sure you never made any mistake huh
edit: I would understand if you lost to her donk play, if she got lucky and you lost with your better hand. But since you're the one who "punished" her for poor play, I don't see the point of making these "troll" comments.
edit: I would understand if you lost to her donk play, if she got lucky and you lost with your better hand. But since you're the one who "punished" her for poor play, I don't see the point of making these "troll" comments.
chory1414
Rock Star
Silver Level
And the fact that your reasoning is good about having AK vs 55, 55 are better because you got two, but just hate it when you put haha comment and like it would be fun to see as it gives Pieras anger and sometimes that comments so you just go and perdes. I think you have to play quietly in silence and try to talk as little as possible
fletchdad
Jammin................
Loyaler
Cant remember which thread, but it was about a - I think - 2-5 live cash game. Maybe something else, but a live cash game, I believe a bigger BI, not 1-2. Anyway........
There was on older gentleman, obv. a fish but a nice guy, who got needled (a statement like "at least you got your straight" to a player who loses to a FH is needling. If you just lose a big pot and ANY kind of salt is thrown on that wound, is it EVER going to be a pleasant experience?) and although he had been perfectly happy to bust out and buy back in, after the needling he felt uncomfortable and left......
Why would you EVER want to make a bad player feel uncomfortable?????
There was on older gentleman, obv. a fish but a nice guy, who got needled (a statement like "at least you got your straight" to a player who loses to a FH is needling. If you just lose a big pot and ANY kind of salt is thrown on that wound, is it EVER going to be a pleasant experience?) and although he had been perfectly happy to bust out and buy back in, after the needling he felt uncomfortable and left......
Why would you EVER want to make a bad player feel uncomfortable?????