Poor Helmuth railed w/ AA! Poll time

[scaryjarry]

Hey all,
I just watched ESPN's wsop Main event latest episode. In it, Phil Helmuth gets mad after gettin railed w/AA! He got beat by 2 guys in his last hand. One guy raises to 22k, Phil + 3 others call. the board was Jc 5c 10h I believe. P1 had Jh 10c, P2 had 9h 8h. Post flop P2 shoves last 80k, Phil goes allin for 110k & P1 after a bit calls covering both. The turn's a 7d and river's a 3s. It gives P2 a str8 & a main pot of 300+ k & P1 side pot of 60k. Phil goes into "I'm the best" tirade & I can understand a bad beat but, why not reraise preflop for 44-47k or just go allin for $132,000? I think he tried to trap & it backfired badly! I would've shoved to isolate & eliminate others, what do u think?
Do give some insight on how you would've did it! Plus, do the poll.

Jarry

 

[Mase31683]

Probably based on observations made of the player. Since he was raising JT, his preflop range is obviously real wide and Helmuth I'm sure took note of that. A 3bet would likely just illicit a fold, since the preflop raiser's range is weak. A case is definitely there for just shipping in preflop, since 22k is a pretty solid portion of Helmuth's stack, so just sticking that on isn't a bad result. Instead Helmuth chose to flat the 22k, making the pot 44k (ended up being more) against someone who seems to have a LAGy image.

Villain should fire at least a cbet a majority of the time, at which point Helmuth can jam drawy boards for about $100k on top, denying most draws correct odds, or on a dry board he could perhaps flat a flop cbet and jam the turn if villain 2barrels.

Instead he called, the pot got bloated to over 100k, he had about that left in his stack, and there's no way you're folding AA with an SPR of 1.

He was probably thinking something like that.

 

[Crummy]

Bad beat for Helmuth... Played a little weak pre-flop play from Phil... Either way I'm 100% impressed with how "nice" Phil was the entire WSOP this year! He was telling people NH, giving them props!!!! Way to go Phil!

 

[Olddog21]

A/A

If phil's intent all along was to shove them all....way not do it sooner before everyone looks at the flop!!!!!!!!!

 

[Lonsdaleite]

I took the following from: http://www.pokerology.com/poker-school/texas-holdem/intermediate/big-pairs-big-slick/

"The whole purpose of playing them aggressively is that even though AA is the best possible starting hand in hold’em poker, it doesn’t play well in large fields. You are a favourite against two or three other players, but when you’re up against four random hands, you’re Aces become an underdog to the field."

There were five guys in the hand. Aces aren't that great five handed. Helmuth knows that by calling, more players are likely to call. He was trying to be deceptive and it didn't work out.

I can't fault just calling. If no one else calls, he might be able to double up against the original raiser (especially if they had AK, KK, or QQ). However, I do fault him for whinning about it. He wasn't even a coin flip against the rest of the field.

 

[Crummy]

Yeah I agree with Lons... he called because he thought the raiser had a good hand too, so why not just smooth call... because say your raiser raised with AK, or AJ, or a smaller pocket pair, chances are your going to still be safe on the flop... Therefore you have the change of either making him fold, or traping him.... However it just didn't work out that way for Phil, both guys in had hit something, or had too many outs to fold.

 

[Grindit9]

Shoveeeeeeeeeeee pre flop definetly.

 

[clubsta]

Ugh that's just an unfortunate situation. I usually raise as much as I can without getting everyone to fold preflop with AA (whenever I don't, I almost always get screwed--I learned the hard way), so of course I would encourage reraising quite a bit, if not all-in. Meh.

 

[triplebluffy]

you obviously do not want to go in against 4 opponents with aces,phil should have reraised up to about 50k in my oppinion,even then though if raiser j 10 called it he was still beat,so the only way he could possibly win the hand was ship it.

 

[wagon596]

I saw this hand,,, I know Phil whined some about the guy with the ace/jack being in the hand,,,, if he was able to see the flop for a reasonable amount and hit the set,,, then Phil has no one to blame but himself. Of course a/j off suit sure isn't the greatest hand either to start with.... just my thoughts.
C'Ya'll

 

[DaBigBoss]

I also think phil was tring to trap and couldn't lay down after the flop...plain just got caught up! I would have pushed preflop to eliminate at least one of the callers from the equation.

 

[Exit141RTe1]

I think the shove post flop should have been a sign to Phil that it might be time to reconsider the rockets. The trapper got trapped!

 

[scaryjarry]

Wrong hand

I saw this hand,,, I know Phil whined some about the guy with the ace/jack being in the hand,,,, if he was able to see the flop for a reasonable amount and hit the set,,, then Phil has no one to blame but himself. Of course a/j off suit sure isn't the greatest hand either to start with.... just my thoughts.
C'Ya'll

That was a couple hands before the 1 we're assessing.

 

[LuckyChippy]

People are so scared of going bust with aces. He knew villain was a LAG and that he would almost definately c-bet. He got unlucky. A raise probably woulda got a fold and he would be safe on most flops. He's unfortunate alot of others called though. I lol at how 2 of us say call.

 

[Implied Odds3]

I guess that's why you always raises preflop with aces...(well, not always; but this situation)..He should have reraised.

 

[moemtg]

Yeah i saw that too..

Pretty shitty bad beat but oh well... He's the pokerbrat and will be back in everysingle game next year...

Sucks to get your aces cracked like that though!

 

[flint]

Definately re-raise with aces. You have to think about all the players wanting to bust Phil still to act...