BelgoSuisse
Legend
Silver Level
Believing in god is merely stupid, but believing in hell is deeply perverted form of sadism. I don't know why it is still in any way socially acceptable.
Believing in god is merely stupid, but believing in hell is deeply perverted form of sadism. I don't know why it is still in any way socially acceptable.
belerophon
Rock Star
Silver Level
LarkMarlow
Legend
Silver Level
Dusty Schmidt's article in the latest issue of CardPlayer (December 21, 2010) magazine is titled "A Game of Skill, and Therefore a Job--Why playing poker qualifies as a profession". While he doesn't mention the word "gambling", what he has to say below is certainly germane to answering the OP question. I've inserted that word where I feel it pertains to the issue.
To me, defining poker as a game of skill is actually quite simple. To do so, you just need to forget about winning at poker and think for a moment about losing. Is it possible to intentionally lose a poker game? Yes, of course. But is it possible to intentionally lose a game like roulette or craps? No, it's not.
In games of chance [gambling], the participant cannot control the outcome. Whether your intent is to win or lose the lottery, your odds remain the same. The superstitious may disagree, but no matter how many times you pull the handle of a slot machine, your odds remain the same each time you put your coins into the slot.
But in poker, your actions can influence the outcome of a hand. You will absolutely lose if you fold to every hand no matter what cards you hold. If you call bets with a hand that cannot win the pot, you will also lose every time. This is the difference between a game of chance [gambling] and a game of skill.
It's common knowledge among poker players that chance is a factor in any given hand, but over many hands, poker will even things out, with the more expert players making a profit.
To me, defining poker as a game of skill is actually quite simple. To do so, you just need to forget about winning at poker and think for a moment about losing. Is it possible to intentionally lose a poker game? Yes, of course. But is it possible to intentionally lose a game like roulette or craps? No, it's not.
In games of chance [gambling], the participant cannot control the outcome. Whether your intent is to win or lose the lottery, your odds remain the same. The superstitious may disagree, but no matter how many times you pull the handle of a slot machine, your odds remain the same each time you put your coins into the slot.
But in poker, your actions can influence the outcome of a hand. You will absolutely lose if you fold to every hand no matter what cards you hold. If you call bets with a hand that cannot win the pot, you will also lose every time. This is the difference between a game of chance [gambling] and a game of skill.
It's common knowledge among poker players that chance is a factor in any given hand, but over many hands, poker will even things out, with the more expert players making a profit.
A
arrytus
Rock Star
Silver Level
this is insightful
ckickenking
Legend
Silver Level
Omg if poker isn't gambling what is? R u playing for money? No offense, but if anyone think it not gambling there crazy. People who go in depth on such a topic is thinking to hard. If your a Christian, don't try to rationalize it because you want to play. Ain't no point trying to make excuses.
bonflizubi
Visionary
Silver Level
so explain Annette15 winning a 180 man while never once seeing her hole cards?
If only cards mattered then in the end we would all break even.
If you gave a good player and a bad player the exact same cards to play (with all the villains getting the same cards vs each) the better player will win more/ make more $$. Why?
-winning with the worst hand because he can better range the villain and pick bluf spots
-The better player will get more value out of the big hands than the fish
-The better player will lose less with the marginal ones.
-And if it was a tournament and got near the end game where the money was, te better player would bully the crap out of the villains, while the bad player would fold like a nit until he saw a real hand.
It's gambling for bad players. Long term it's skill for good players.
WV dude got it right early in this thread, dunno why anyone else bothers after he chimes in, he's usually right.
Cliffs: Fish gamble. SHarks play with skill.
Suited Frenzy
CardsChat Elite
Silver Level
^^^^^THIS^^^^^
dj11
Legend
Silver Level
Just my .02, but I believe playing the stock market is definitely gambling. You are investing in the future (wagering) based on the outcome of unknown events (events that will occur that will make or break your stock/investment). There is much more to it than that of course, but still definitely gambling.
.
FYP
The similarities between the stock market and poker are so close that any sane person will suggest it boils down to what tie a person is wearing when in action. Oh wait, few poker players wear ties.........
darkassassin89
Legend
Silver Level
Ok for those who think i am trying to rationalize my poker playing, i am not, i was just curious.
I have read much and have come to the conclusion that games of gambling are those that have nothing to do with changing the out come of the game.
Poker you DO decide what happens in the game. As Lark mentioned if you were to FOLD every hand, you are deffinently not gambling. Rather you are using your skill to enfluence the game. (not a good enfluence for yout the folder )
Over all i have made my conclustion that Poker in itself is NOT gambling. BC you can always fold a hand and a fold is never a bad decision, bc you are still in the game. ( talking 2 all my toueny players haha)
I have read much and have come to the conclusion that games of gambling are those that have nothing to do with changing the out come of the game.
Poker you DO decide what happens in the game. As Lark mentioned if you were to FOLD every hand, you are deffinently not gambling. Rather you are using your skill to enfluence the game. (not a good enfluence for yout the folder
) Over all i have made my conclustion that Poker in itself is NOT gambling. BC you can always fold a hand and a fold is never a bad decision, bc you are still in the game.
( talking 2 all my toueny players haha)
R
RamdeeBen
Legend
Silver Level
Whilst this may be true in some context. It's still a gamble. I mean there have been times where I've had enough and just gone all-in with the worse possible hands and had someone call. I hit runner,runner,runner to win the hand. So no it is not possible to know 100% the outcome on weather you are going to win a hand or not. Probability has its part and being massive under dog as we all know and have been sucked out on doesn't mean you can "lose" at poker on purpose.
The only way to know 100% if you can lose at poker is by knowing what the other persons hand is and going all-in knowing no matter what cards come, you have still lost.
Mortis
The Saurus
Loyaler
Don't let others tell you how to live your life and you will be much happier.
Good words to live by.
pcgnome
Legend
Silver Level
pcgnome
Legend
Silver Level
I think God himself took a bit of a gamble when he decided to plant the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and told Adam and Eve not to eat its fruits.
That's a good one, but what would you say he was he thinking when he invented Pandora's Box?
pcgnome
Legend
Silver Level
Then who are the poker Gods?
What religion is that?
:withstupi
It wasn't that stupid. The post about the Tree of Knowledge reminded me of a required essay for my college Greek Mythology class that I wrote a few years ago about the similarities between the book of Genesis & the ancient Greek myth about Pandora's Box. Go figuire.
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darkassassin89
Legend
Silver Level
ive come to realize when i post a new thread they get quite full of debating, I like it Good to know i can come up with some decent threads heheheThanks Everyone for all the response's It has given me much insight and has led me to think of poker in many different ways now, (gambling and not gambling) I still think poker in itself is not gambling, (if i can make you fold the best hand
) If i can play a certain way to make my villains fold... then i msut be doing something right 
gobthemagician
Rock Star
Silver Level
This thread's title reminded me of a quote from the movie Rounders. "How many times do I need to tell you? It's not gambling for me anymore!"
Well maybe that's not exactly it, but you get the jist of it. I think the pros can attest to this statement, it's not the most stable of incomes but a ton better than risky investments, fun too!
Well maybe that's not exactly it, but you get the jist of it. I think the pros can attest to this statement, it's not the most stable of incomes but a ton better than risky investments, fun too!
