Playing live tonight, need help with 'live' reads

[thepokerkid123]

Don't look for tells. Seriously.

Deep breathing - easy to fake, and it only tells you your opponent is excited which can mean they have a gut shot and feel lucky, or it can mean he's played poker for more than a day and a half and has seen it before and is faking it. Tells that are easy to fake are good against really, really bad players, anyone who's not forgetting to post their blinds probably knows about this tell which makes it unreliable.

Shaky hands: Don't watch it, seriously... quick story, at the end of a long session my hands shake for like 45 minutes, I don't know why, they just do, they start and stop of their own accord. I've got JTo, last hand this guy's eyes lit up when he was watching my hands shake and I mucked what must have been a bluff, this time I catch the J on the flop, open shove heads up, shaky hands of course, insta pay off by AK unimproved. Shaky hands are so ridiculously unreliable, on anyone.

Quickly looking at chips after flop is dealt: I actually haven't done my research on this one, but two obvious points are that it happens really fast so whilst being hard to see is probably hard to fake, but also everyone who has ever googled poker tells, or ever talked to anyone about tells, or ever sat a table for more than 5 minutes knows about it and on that basis, it's reliability is questionable.


Don't get me wrong, my live game is VERY dependent on tells, but none of this simple sh*t, you want to learn it then you need to learn why the human body reacts that way, what is/isn't voluntary, you also need to do a little research on facial muscles (since they're the ones which are almost always visible). It's all a part of a bigger picture and open for interpretation, it's the interpretation where tells become misleading. But some straightforward stuff:

A quick run through of the semi-reliable stuff: pupil dilation, if the pupils expand=happy, contract=unplesant, so if their pupils expand *immediately* after seeing a flop, they probably hit it hard. The semi-reliable bit about this is that very, very few people can fake it because very, very few people have control over it, unfortunately it only indicates an emotional response not a statement of what it's responding to. Maybe he's happy even though he missed because he thinks it missed your range, maybe he's upset because that dreaded A to his QQ came but he's never folding because you're a bluffy agro spewtard (you being any random person, not you specifically).
Stillness: It's really, really hard to sit still when you're bluffing. I'm not going to go into why, but it's completely contradictory to your natural reaction (which IS to hide, but not hiding in plain sight, more of the distancing kind). Your opponents will feel like they're under the microscope, look for tension in their facial muscles and complete stillness over a duration of a minute or two. Note that both of these things are well known and therefore can be faked, however because of the difficult circumstances the person is in at the time, unless they're good I trust them to fail at it.

Mouth stuff: Anything involving the mouth is really, really good. If they lick their lips you're screwed, run away as fast as you can. If they stick a finger in their mouth (yes it does happen) then they're desperately weak (probably not folding, so value bet really light rather than bluff).

There's also a muscle that runs down the inner side of the eyes (not sure if we technically want to consider it to be on the nose or eye, or what, but it's there), it contracts when a smile is genuine and is doesn't contract when anyone (without training or a great deal of experiance) tries to fake a smile. Opponents regularly smile while you're making a decision, whether they're trying to fake confidence or they actually can't contain themselves, this piece of information is invaluable in determining which.


In short, either take tells seriously or play with your eyes closed. Poker players are as a group appauling at picking up tells, maybe high stakes guys are decent at it, but 200nl-500nl no one has a clue (some guys do, but they're like 0.5% of the people in the room), most people cost themselves more money than they make on tells (grossly uninformed guesstimation, but I don't think it's far off).

 

[5TR8 FLUSH]

Heres a few:

Staring at the Flop: This is a very common poker tell. If a player stares at the flop, it often means that he does not have anything and is taking a extra moment to scroll through potential hands in his mind.
Quickly Looking Away from the Flop: If a player glances at the flop for a millisecond and then immediately looks away from the flop (and especially if he follows it up by looking at his chips), it may signal that the decision to bet was really easy (e.g., he quickly saw that he made a pair or better and plans to bet).
Staring at Another Player: This tell could mean that the player is nervous that the other player is going to call him or bet. Being able to read his eyes or other sign of anxiety will help support your analysis of this tell.
Immediately Calling a Bet: The player is trying to show strength, which may mean that he has a weak hand (but be aware of the reverse psychology phenomenon). A even stronger signal is when the player reaches for his chips even before the previous player has made his bet.
Looking Disappointed: This is a poker tell, but whether it is the real thing or an intentional false signal is up to you to decide. Disappointment is more common and obvious with large pots. The disappointed player may put on his sad face or exhale deeply (because he has been holding his breath since before the River was dealt).
Appearing Unusually Confident: This is a sign of strength, which means that he is bluffing (or otherwise trying to screw with your mind).
Looking at the Chips: When a player looks at his chips, it often means that he is planning to bet.
Visible Anxiety: This includes any physical manisfestation of the player's anxiety such as perspiration, facial contortions, shaking hands, heavy breathing, body posture, nervous glances, etc. Exhibiting anxiety may mean that the player is bluffing, or at least is expecting a relatively tough fight or challenge.

Great tips, when I participate in my first live cash table or tourney i'll do my best to remember most of these tips. I just hope I don't show to many tells, which i'm sure I will because i'll probably be nervous my first couple live events.

 

[WVHillbilly]

Great tips, when I participate in my first live cash table or tourney i'll do my best to remember most of these tips. I just hope I don't show to many tells, which i'm sure I will because i'll probably be nervous my first couple live events.

Your post actually brings up a great point. Rather than looking for tells in others your 1st and biggest concern should be that you're not giving off any major tells yourself. Remember even if you notice some guy only eats the oreo when he has the nuts you might only get to use it against him a couple of times, but if you have some major tell yourself you'll be showing it in every hand you're in.

 

[KerouacsDog]

Your post actually brings up a great point. Rather than looking for tells in others your 1st and biggest concern should be that you're not giving off any major tells yourself. Remember even if you notice some guy only eats the oreo when he has the nuts you might only get to use it against him a couple of times, but if you have some major tell yourself you'll be showing it in every hand you're in.

yeah, there was some guy playing called 'Teddy KBG', or something like that, he kept his oreos in a chip-rack, and liked to listen to the sound of an oreo opening.................couldnt get a read on him, though!!!!!

Anyway, thanks for all the posts guys, in the end I couldnt find many reads, one guy wore shades the whole game, but we just took the piss out of him!
Early on I raised it up with pocket 8's, got one caller, flop was T99, I bet out and he called, turn was an 8 for my FH, we got it all in by the river, he had flopped trips with q9, so I knocked him out.
But the game was so slow compared to online, we started with 10000 chips, with blinds at 25/50 and 30 minute levels, so it dragged.

I was card-dead for a good hour, lost a few small hands here and there, basically everyone liked limping, saw people limping with AA/QQ etc, in the end I shoved with 9BB with QQ, guy called with AQos, and hit a flush on the river.

Oh and it was only 26 people, with top3 paid out, so it's quite hard to cash.
Anyway, think Im done with that particular game, rather put the £11($16) buy-in into a decent online mtt and see how I do.


Thanks again for all the replies.

 

[absoluthamm]

well if anything it was a good learning experience. it really is kind of crazy how much more passive live games are than online.

 

[dantheman91]

It's interesting how people are like, sunglasses are stupid for a buy in less then $500, but then there's a bunch of tells involving what your eyes do. Isn't it better to give yourself somewhat of an advantage and not give people the tells like pupils getting larger or staring at the flop extra long? o.0 Weird...

 

[absoluthamm]

dan, that's because most of the people at these stakes are unable to read tells like this. Even though tips were posted in here, the chance that someone will use most of them is unlikely. At low buy-ins people are more concerned about what their own cards are and what cards are on the board instead of whether their opponent smirks every time he is dealt the nuts. Once a player is able to play the higher buyins, they are more comfortable playing the players instead of the hands, so they are looking for these tendencies.

 

[IcyBlueAce]

dan, that's because most of the people at these stakes are unable to read tells like this. Even though tips were posted in here, the chance that someone will use most of them is unlikely. At low buy-ins people are more concerned about what their own cards are and what cards are on the board instead of whether their opponent smirks every time he is dealt the nuts. Once a player is able to play the higher buyins, they are more comfortable playing the players instead of the hands, so they are looking for these tendencies.

Not when it comes down to you being heads up with someone whose trying to decide if they should call your monster raise or your all in.

 

[OzExorcist]

Shaky hands: Don't watch it, seriously... quick story, at the end of a long session my hands shake for like 45 minutes, I don't know why, they just do, they start and stop of their own accord. I've got JTo, last hand this guy's eyes lit up when he was watching my hands shake and I mucked what must have been a bluff, this time I catch the J on the flop, open shove heads up, shaky hands of course, insta pay off by AK unimproved. Shaky hands are so ridiculously unreliable, on anyone.

I agree that you can't assume that all tells are valid for all people all the time, you've got to mix your own observations about the individual players in with them to make your assessments. LOL at the villain in this hand though: shaky hands are supposed to be a sign of a monster, not a bluff.

If you want to get serious about learning tells, get Read 'em and Reap by Joe Navarro (it's not by Phil Hellmuth, even though he's on the cover). Don't waste your time with Caro's Book of Old and Unscientific Tells for Games That Nobody Plays.

Navarro knows what he's talking about, largely because he's a highly-trained expert on body language and not a poker player, the pictures are a hundred times better than Caro's book, the advice is dedicated pretty much wholly to casino NLHE games and it's very well written, organised and presented. He's got some videos floating about somewhere too but the book is fantastic.

My biggest tip would be to work on concealing your own tells first though. Just copy the Chris Ferguson pose every time you're in a hand and use steady, consistent methodical movements when you're checking your cards or putting chips in the pot and you shouldn't need to be too worried about bringing a stupid hat or sunglasses.

 

[Weregoat]

Sorry but please don't do this. People who do this slow down the game for everyone. Plus if you wait until it's your turn to act everyone will be watching you looking at your cards whereas if you just look at them when you get them other people won't be looking at you and since you say you're somewhat new to live poker I'm assuming they will be able to read you better than you them.

The only exception I will make is if you already know before looking at your cards what your action will be no matter what the hole cards ie if you already know in your head before looking at your cards that you will 3-bet 56s+/QQ+/AK, flat AT+/KQ/any pair up to JJ then sure wait if you want then you will act quick because you already know what you're going to do. But if you're the idiot who slowly peeks at one card then the other then thinks for a minute before folding A8o UTG+1 do everyone a favor and just ****ing look as you get them so you can think longer and not slow the game way down. This is especially true if it's like a home game rather than a high buy-in live event in a casino or something.

This is wrong. I never look at my whole cards until it's my turn to act. I look at my cards, then decide one of three things:

1. I'm not playing this hand. (Fold)
2. I might play this hand.
3. I'm definitely playing this hand.

In the event I may or may not play the hand, I memorize my hole cards while I look at them, put a card protector on them, then review the action in the hand from, starting from UTG all the way to me. I roughly add-up the total value of the pot, the chips behind (for my implied odds), and the stacks of players yet to act. I then calculate whether or I'll call or raise, and how much.

The whole process takes less than fifteen seconds, and nobody has ever complained about it.

Also in the stakes I play at (300NL) and several hundred dollar tournaments, everybody does it. This is a ridiculous request. The only players who don't look at their hand before they make their decision are the weaker players, and ussually it puts a crosshair on their back because they aren't familiar with the trickier plays, like a check/raise bluff on the turn and the resteal preflop, let alone the steal preflop.

If you are the guy peaking from the button as the cards get to you, and you claim you actually need the time, I suggest you play a hundred thousand more hands then, because you sir, are an idiot.

As far as the sunglasses at the poker table, I recently saved a lot of money when I raised from position with AKs, I looked at my opponent as he looked at the flop. His eyes flared up for just half a second, as if he were surprised. He checked, I looked at the flop, AT7. I checked back. Turn comes a 3, He checked, I checked back. River a 3, He checked I checked back. I opened my AK and he slammed down his 77 for a fullhouse, as well as berated me for not betting any street.

No, to OP -

The player's eyes are a source of information. What do they look at? Your chips? Their chips? The board? In a case of the first two they're going to base their bet amount with a hand they believe to think they're ahead on. Glance at theboard then quickly look away? They're big.

As far as shaky hands, don't bet into this villain. He has a vice-grip on the hand. If my hand were immortal I'd jam on him knowing he's calling with a monster.

 

[Weregoat]

Also, there is no 'easy answer' for tells. It's based on the situation and the player. Very rarely am I required to make a decision based on a 'tell' somebody may or may not have.

And players in sunglasses give me very little information through the eyes. The single most important thing you can do is eliminate your own tells and follow your poker intuition.

 

[only_bridge]

Strong means weak, weak means strong.

 

[only_bridge]

YouTube- Mike Caro's 10 Ultimate Poker Tells

 

[Weregoat]

Strong means weak, weak means strong.

That's not true with the entire poker population.

Sometimes strong means strong and weak means weak. If you operate on the basis that the majority of players play with the strong = weak and weak = strong, then you have to figure there's some profit to be made by strong = strong and weak = weak.

 

[absoluthamm]

That's not true with the entire poker population.

Sometimes strong means strong and weak means weak. If you operate on the basis that the majority of players play with the strong = weak and weak = strong, then you have to figure there's some profit to be made by strong = strong and weak = weak.

That's actually how I made my first million...