The New UIGEA Regulations and what You can do to Fight Them

[zachvac]

very interesting new article on the UIGEA supposedly written by an authority on gambling law. basically claims the gov gave up/weren't able to implement the restrictions they were seeking

http://www.compatiblepoker.com/final-uigea.cms.htm

Also note however that this is an opinion written right after the regulations. I believe he's right as of now but I believe it's gotten to the point that if a bad doj gets in or an administration attempts to crack down on it they could force banks to over-regulate and make it close to impossible. Either way I hope we can get something like the Skill Game Protection Act through.

 

[ChurchSkiz]

After reading some of the commentary and a bit of the actual regulation (not too much it's pretty bloated), I think there may be loophole work-around.

pokerstars (or any company really not even necessarily a current site) could potentially set up a sister company outside of the corporation. This company would be a store front for poker merchandise. Any US player would be within their rights to purchase various merchandise at the store (cards, hats, shirts, possibly even e-books which require no actual product). For each item purchased, there is a subsequent "gift" included, which would be a bonus added to the PokerStars account.

So for example, I would purchase a deck of cards from "The Pokerstore" for $52+S&H. I would get a $2 deck of cards by mail and a $50 bonus added to my PokerStars account. The transaction should be legit because I am doing business with a retail vendor and not a gambling institution. The retail outlet would be outside of US jurisdiction and is free to transfer their funds as seen fit (in this case, back to the poker site).

If possible, they could sell e-books that would reduce the overhead. So instead of ordering a deck of cards for $2 + S&H, I order an e-book "How not to suck at poker" for $50.50 and get a $50 deposit and a worthless e-book to download.

 

[jolubman]

Still more crap from that loser Bush, the man that brought you all the current problems. He should be working on them. Not helping his friends who stand to win if poker remains illegal. Sad

 

[tbdbitl]

Wow that is horrable news.I have been trying to deposite on ub for ever now.They still cannot validate my id.

Go to https://www.netspend.com/

Under "Already Have an account" you will find:


Find a NetSpend Reload Center near you.
View a list of our Reload partners.

I went to a local Checksmart with cash in hand got a reloadable All Access visa Debit Card (not gift card). I got home and in no time the deposit to UB was made. Just note there will be a $1 charge to the visa debit card so load the card with $1 more than you want to deposit.

For example load $101 to the card then go to the UB deposit and deposit $100. Make sure that your address on UB is correct and the card is set up with the same address. Good Luck!


oh and if you use UB200 in the bonus code you get 200% of your deposit in Bonus $$$--that's $200 Bonus Dollars for $100 deposit. For more details on bonus go here:
http://www.ultimatebet.com/poker-promotion/deposit-bonus

 

[paddythejack]

aint got a penny in a bank its all under me bed :icon_sant






LOVE LIFE PLAY TO WIN

 

[quintass]

let me see if I got it straight: It is unlawfull to FUND any online (gambling) poker account from any U.S. monetary source (cc,bank,savings acct, etc...).

So then am I to assume it is ok to play the game, as long as you fund the
account via offshore services, such as Epassporte,E-wallet, and the likes?

 

[icemonkey9]

This was posted on another forum and its worth posting here. Please check out that link and email our President Elect.

Former House Majority Leader Dick Armey (R-TX) sent out an alert on online gaming/poker today.

He wants us all to send a letter to President-elect Obama, so please take 30 seconds to pitch in. Just go to http://www.capwiz.com/freedomworks/i...ertid=12298491 :

An investigation on an internet gaming cheating scandal at the AbsolutePoker and UltimateBet websites has many calling for even more restrictions or an outright ban on online gaming.

But we should instead see this as a good example of the unintended consequences of government activity. Let us not forget that extreme regulation, due to the questionable passage of the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006 (UIGEA), forced these companies to go offshore in the first place, likely exposing consumers to greater risks than they would face in a more open environment for online gaming.

Instead of trying to ban what is a popular billion dollar market with millions of users, consumers should have every protection that they enjoy when they make any other transaction—online or in their local store.

Online gamers shouldn’t have to hope for a fair hand, but instead know that their government is allowing markets to work while ensuring consumers access to the full force of the law in the case of irregularities or illegal activities.

The solution is not to drive the industry underground and offshore. The solution is to ensure that online gamers have access to the rule of law and that those who host and administer these sites abide by strict market discipline, where trust can be rewarded and a breach of trust means a business is not viable.

Even if you aren’t a user of these sites, I’m sure you can see the problems with the current tactics being used on this industry, and the potential implications that could ensue if these (or similar) regulations were to be expanded upon, or even tested on other industries.

Help us stop the government from tightening its stranglehold on business growth by clicking here to send a message to President-elect Obama, urging him to overturn this act and give the American people the ability to engage in safe and transparent internet gaming.


Sincerely,

Dick Armey
Chairman
FreedomWorks.org

 

[zachvac]

After reading some of the commentary and a bit of the actual regulation (not too much it's pretty bloated), I think there may be loophole work-around.

Pokerstars (or any company really not even necessarily a current site) could potentially set up a sister company outside of the corporation. This company would be a store front for poker merchandise. Any US player would be within their rights to purchase various merchandise at the store (cards, hats, shirts, possibly even e-books which require no actual product). For each item purchased, there is a subsequent "gift" included, which would be a bonus added to the PokerStars account.

So for example, I would purchase a deck of cards from "The Pokerstore" for $52+S&H. I would get a $2 deck of cards by mail and a $50 bonus added to my PokerStars account. The transaction should be legit because I am doing business with a retail vendor and not a gambling institution. The retail outlet would be outside of US jurisdiction and is free to transfer their funds as seen fit (in this case, back to the poker site).

If possible, they could sell e-books that would reduce the overhead. So instead of ordering a deck of cards for $2 + S&H, I order an e-book "How not to suck at poker" for $50.50 and get a $50 deposit and a worthless e-book to download.

This wouldn't work. The way they would enforce it people are speculating is that someone from the doj would make an online deposit. They wold then track it and tell the bank "stop doing business with this company. Even if the bank is only dealing with a company that deals with a company that deals with a company that deals with illegal online gambling (still undefined) the bank would likely be found in violation. Note that currently the way they do it with moneygrams (similar to Western Union) is they give you a person's name and you transfer the cash to the person and the person then I guess deposits it into Pokerstars. If they can stop banks from sending money to people who deposit into poker sites for them they can stop banks from trading with sister companies and such. Basically that's what Stars at least already does. They simply create a ton of sister companies and can shut them down and re-open new ones again and again before one can be caught or anything.

 

[1fernandez1]

wow im really starting to hate my country!

 

[1fernandez1]

they should not be allowed to do shit like this.and if no one acts on it then we will suffer actiopn like this bullshit

 

[1fernandez1]

and another thing when did it become politicians decide whats best for me they are elected officials put in place to carry the peoples voice ,buts who is out there saying ban online poker cause there is none it is all about how can they make a buck off someone else,and if they cant control it then thats means it dont happen,thats the reason why our enconomy is screwed right now because government told banks to give out high risk loans it wasnt the people who said i think you should give my neighbor a loan even tho i work for what i have and he dont,and in the end who pays.....WE DO.when does this bullshit stop who knows if it ever will and really what more can we do ?

 

[ChurchSkiz]

This wouldn't work. The way they would enforce it people are speculating is that someone from the doj would make an online deposit. They wold then track it and tell the bank "stop doing business with this company. Even if the bank is only dealing with a company that deals with a company that deals with a company that deals with illegal online gambling (still undefined) the bank would likely be found in violation. Note that currently the way they do it with moneygrams (similar to Western Union) is they give you a person's name and you transfer the cash to the person and the person then I guess deposits it into Pokerstars. If they can stop banks from sending money to people who deposit into poker sites for them they can stop banks from trading with sister companies and such. Basically that's what Stars at least already does. They simply create a ton of sister companies and can shut them down and re-open new ones again and again before one can be caught or anything.

You're right, I reread the legislation and saw that you're not allowed to give information to a vendor that could be used to transfer money. ie providing your PS account name for the "gift" would make the transaction illegal.

 

[haystack]

keep writing in people we need to get this defeated so we can keep playing

 

[phatuesday]

What's Next? Taxing our E-Mail?

I am sure if anyone recalls the ridiculous notion that the fed (congress) was actually considering, authoring and putting into committee a bill that would put a fee on each and every electronic message we send. HORSEPUCKY! We must insist that this type of regulation is just another attempt by Bureaucrats to meddle in an area they don't belong, let alone tax us in a fashion that is again unconstitutional, buy giving banks powers as a branch of the Judicial system. Whether it appears they want this ability or not, they will find a way to bastardize it and turn it into a revenue stream which is why they appear to be staying neutral on the issue. Maybe if it were one(a revenue stream) we might gain an allies the banking industry and get closer to regaining our right, and our freedom. Unfortunately, they will find a way to make us pay a tax for it. Again I state "No taxation without formal representation."

 

[chrisdione]

Just another thing for the US government to do to keep poker down in the US because they do not have their hand on the money that is being made from it.What a bunch of GREEDY SOB's this country has turned into. I am ashamed most times to say that I live here.What we need to do is elect Daniel Negraneau President of the US. Write him in in the next election.

 

[mjdavinci]

This is just another reason we as a nation of people have let the current goverement get way out of control. We all need to be more involved in the process to get some true leadership in Washington. Not just for the little things that affect us in the poker world, but all things that they have done and will try to do us in life. We need to vote all the bums out and start with a new rooster of people that truly want to take us in the right direction.

 

[lrrpk9]

Can any one tell me what playing poker online has to do with keeping ports safe ? Maybe the way the congress does its business needs to be fixed. Pork should be for eating , the not law. Just shows how dishonest politics are , the way they do regular business is dishonest. If the fed can't decide how to enforce this law how are the banks gonna do it. Bunch of F'in law donks.

 

[mange]

Sending e-mail

I will be sending an e-mail to my Congressman and Senator today.

Seems rediculous that they spend so much effort on screwing over the "on line" poker players. And, turn a "blind eye" to the Credit Card rip off the banks and lending institutes have imposed on us.

Politicians suck.

mange

 

[Alon Ipser]

I will be sending an e-mail to my Congressman and Senator today.

mange

Sending and e mail to your congressman will accomplish nothing. Our political system is based on the $. Senator Frist attached the UIGEA to the Safe Harbors bill only after unsuccessfully trying to get it passed on it's own merits. I don't know which lobbiest was paying for it but my guess is Native American casinos or a Religious left wing Org.

Before the UIGEA was passed the Justice Department tried to say that Online Poker was illlegal due to the wire act but many legal experts said that the wire act only pertained to sports betting. The Owners of the of offshore online betting that were arrestted before the UIGEA took affect were into both online sports betting as well as Poker and it is my opinion that that if they were strictly poker and not sports betting they would have skated. The Justice Department would not have persued any action against a strictly poker business.

As far as online poker is concerned, it is a State issue and not a Federal issue in the US (Like abortion, Roe vs Wade). The UIGEA strictly deals with the banking of of online poker and doesn't actually deal with the legallity of online poker. Here in Washington State, online poker is a felony offense. I can sit here at my computer and play for pennies and it is a felony, while somebody else can spend thousands of dollars playing the same game in a casino, right down the street, legally. Not only that, but the State liscenced online Horse betting right after it made poker illegal. Now tell me why I shouldn't be upset. I don't follow the "Letter of the Law" because the letter of the law has nothing to do with what is right or just. The law has to do with who has the most money.

Sorry for the rant but people need to pull their heads out because our country will going the way that all other democracies have gone (Check your history). The President is not above the law, allowing torture and the patriot act. Imminent Domain doesn't mean a contractor can take your house and build a hotel for the betterment of the community. If Dave wants to marry Bob, what gives the government the right to say no when Dave's and Bob's actions effects nobody but Dave and Bob. I'm sorry but this last paragraph may have got off track a little bit but I don't think so. A crime without a victim, is not a crime. If I want to grow a plant in my living room and and cram it in to a bong bowl every once in a while, it affects nobody other than me, so the goverment can **** off.

About the only thing I agree on with the government is that driving is a priviledge and not a right. So if you want to ride a bike, put your helmet on. I don't want to pay for medical bills when you crash and turn yourself into a veggie because you weren't wearing a helmet.

 

[LeanAndMean]

change.gov

Go to change.gov and log in to ask a question of Obama, tell him you want to repeal this law.

 

[icemonkey9]

To expand on what Lean is saying above, I got this email ...

We recently launched a new feature on Change.gov called Open for Questions. Thousands of you responded, asking 10,000 questions and voting nearly a million times on questions from others.

Now that we've answered some of the most popular ones from the last round, we are open for questions again. Ask whatever you like, and vote up or down on the other questions to let us know which ones you most want the Transition to answer.

Get started now at http://change.gov/openforquestions.

Be sure to login and do the search for "UIGEA" and vote for those related questions, as right now it seems not many people are voting "for" getting those questions answered.

 

[SavagePenguin]

I wanted details for the Absolute Poker Playboy thing, so I tried to go to their website a few minutes ago.

I get the same sort of message from UltimateBet.

I'm glad I don't play at either site.

No problems with PokerStars or Full Tilt, which I do play on. I tried bodog and that works as well.

 

[sweetestdream]

Poker Players Alliance

Want to make a difference? Become a member of Poker Players Alliance... its non profit group that fights for our rights. check it out and join...

http://pokerplayersalliance.org/

make a difference!

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeetest!

 

[ChurchSkiz]

To expand on what Lean is saying above, I got this email ...

We recently launched a new feature on Change.gov called Open for Questions. Thousands of you responded, asking 10,000 questions and voting nearly a million times on questions from others.

Now that we've answered some of the most popular ones from the last round, we are open for questions again. Ask whatever you like, and vote up or down on the other questions to let us know which ones you most want the Transition to answer.

Get started now at http://change.gov/openforquestions.

Be sure to login and do the search for "UIGEA" and vote for those related questions, as right now it seems not many people are voting "for" getting those questions answered.

We'll need a lot of votes to beat the pot heads.......

 

[rubberduck30]

sending a letter now thanks