The New UIGEA Regulations and what You can do to Fight Them

[itlegacy]

There is yet another approach to consider. In contacting representatives, or the Obama camp, point out that the casinos within our borders are losing 10% of their revenues in today's economy. Yet the online poker sites, positioned off-shore, are growing/gaining lots of money. Recommend that online sites within our borders, at locations already lawful, be approved for activity on the internet under the UIGEA. Food for thought.

Point out that the rest of the world economies expect the US to resolve everyone's ills .... so, given that, let's "promote" internet gambling within our borders at lawful existing sites over the internet.

 

[young hova]

I've put forth my effort. I had received the email from the PPA because I'm on their mailing list, but I'm glad you made a post about this.

Zach, I seen the bill and when I noticed it was 121 pages I didnt really feel like going through it at the time. Thanks for summing it up. Question, what about sites that allow prepaid vouchers as a form of deposit? Would that be a way around what these regulations propose?.....Hopefully Obama and the democrats will turn this thing around or the bill will need to be sent back for revisions so it doesn't make the deadline but looks like the latter is unlikely.

I play on the microgaming network as of now so its alot of europeaners, very little Americans so the depositing doesnt affect the solid americans as much here but this is a problem regardless for all Americans regarding internet freedom just like Zach said. I'm still yet to try to transfer money over to a site like Fulltilt or Pstars and I damn sure don't want to be locked out of that because of something like this.

 

[jazzaxe]

I agree with the previous posts, however, I don't think that it will be enforced by the banks, due to the difficulty in monitoring the traffic. The real problem will be what you see in Kentucky, where the state government will prohibit internet access to poker sites. Anyway you look at it, unless they do a 180° turnabout on this, online poker may be seeing its last days in the US. So if you want to keep it, stay involved.

 

[zachvac]

I've put forth my effort. I had received the email from the PPA because I'm on their mailing list, but I'm glad you made a post about this.

Zach, I seen the bill and when I noticed it was 121 pages I didnt really feel like going through it at the time. Thanks for summing it up. Question, what about sites that allow prepaid vouchers as a form of deposit? Would that be a way around what these regulations propose?.....Hopefully Obama and the democrats will turn this thing around or the bill will need to be sent back for revisions so it doesn't make the deadline but looks like the latter is unlikely.

This is actually the biggest thing that will go. Prepaid cards and such that people currently use are easy to track and thus would no longer be able to be used. The one thing that it seems the sites can always be one step ahead of is Western Union/Monegram-type transfers to individuals. I don't know if there are just a ton of people or they have fake IDs and such, but they can continue to get new names for transfers as fast as banks can ban transactions with those people. So unless the banks started banning overseas transactions (not gonna happen), that's safe. Prepaid cards and such will no longer work at all.

I agree with the previous posts, however, I don't think that it will be enforced by the banks, due to the difficulty in monitoring the traffic. The real problem will be what you see in Kentucky, where the state government will prohibit internet access to poker sites. Anyway you look at it, unless they do a 180° turnabout on this, online poker may be seeing its last days in the US. So if you want to keep it, stay involved.

This is false. Actually the newest regulations actually affirm that unless there are additional laws (like in Kentucky), that PLAYING poker and WITHDRAWING winnings is legal. So they will not be able to block internet access and such. But the banks don't have an excuse for difficulty. It's law, and if they don't comply they can get in legal trouble. That's the difference. Before the law was there but they weren't really enforcing it. Now they are. If a bank fails to exercise "due diligence", they can be auditted and fined. Furthermore, the FBI/DOJ can do the enforcing, provide the banks with a list, and then the banks are banned from doing business with people on the list.

ANOTHER concern is that out of fear of getting in trouble, banks will over-regulate, and just ban anything overseas that looks like it could be associated with gambling. That's the biggest problem and it would be bad. Banks have a history of taking this path as well if you look at how they reacted to the Patriot Act and such. The one thing that is certain is that we can't just sit here and hope nothing bad happens.


As to where I'm getting this information, the poker legislation of 2+2 has a good amount of threads on it with a rep from the PPA posting there and answering questions. I pretty much spent 5+ hours last night reading every single post there, so I think I have a pretty good idea of what's going on.

 

[kmixer]

I am fully planning on writing to all involvd to voice my opinion. This really should piss off any poker player that this crap is going on. This country has far greater problems to deal with and this was made a top priority. It has to be that the casionos have gotten deep in president Bush's pockets.

Geez man go away already

On another note won't this open another business of sorts for people online. I know CC does not advocate player transfers but wouldnt a silly law like this male sites like this to opn up to that idea.

Also I have made a few good friends on sites like pokerstars people I really trust. Really nothing anyone can do to stop transfers between us.

The government needs to get their noses out of this. Resposible adults should be able to spend their money as they wish if it is the exact same thing I can go and do live it should be legal online.

 

[zachvac]

Also anyone writing to Congress, especially Democrats, I would make sure to touch on the regulation of the internet part. They may not care about poker, but the Democrats in general seem to be agaisnt internet regulation.

 

[kmixer]

Here is an article that puts a twist I have not yet heard from anyone else.http://luckynumbers.kansascity.com/?q=node/396

 

[RickH2005]

Wow!

I have been a member of the PPA since joing Cardschat and left several posts about this very matter. I have also written to both my congress-people AND to John Mcaine AND now Barack Obama as well. Thank you, Zach, for bringing this to our members attention---I too recieved an e-mailabout it! NOW!! We HAVE TO all stck together and follow Zachs advice and GET INVOLVED! I've even heard about some of our UK members getting involved along with Australia as well. BUT it' really up to ALL U.S. members to let YOUR Congress-people know just how you feel about our rights being taken away from us! Oh, I've also PHONED my local Senator and let him know IN PERSON just how I feel! Thanks again, Zach!

 

[ChurchSkiz]

I'm writing letters to my representatives. But, after reading the legislation, I'm wondering if the Fed changes will really change anything.

What's to stop me from setting up a paypal account in mexico, taking money for a small fee, and then depositting the money into a poker site and transferring to your account? Are the banks going to shut down all 3rd party payment vendors? As long as there is a $12 billion dollar poker industry, there will be ways to deposit money. Yes you won't be able to use pre-paid credit cards, but I really don't think they can stop things like payment intermediaries that travel to a 3rd party institution and could go to ANY business or person.

For a 1% fee, i'll hop the border and make deposits into PokerStars from my Mexican bank account.

 

[dg1267]

I sent my letters out. This is just disgusting! I'm absolutely sick of Big Brother watching me and telling me what I can and can't do with MY money that I earn! I know that they would like to see their greedy little paws get some tax dollars out of it, but for what? To screw it up even more than they already have? This is ridiculous!

 

[zachvac]

I'm writing letters to my representatives. But, after reading the legislation, I'm wondering if the Fed changes will really change anything.

What's to stop me from setting up a Paypal account in Mexico, taking money for a small fee, and then depositting the money into a poker site and transferring to your account? Are the banks going to shut down all 3rd party payment vendors? As long as there is a $12 billion dollar poker industry, there will be ways to deposit money. Yes you won't be able to use pre-paid credit cards, but I really don't think they can stop things like payment intermediaries that travel to a 3rd party institution and could go to ANY business or person.

For a 1% fee, i'll hop the border and make deposits into PokerStars from my Mexican bank account.

Basically it's going to be unenforcable. The more I read about it the more it seems to be like the '06 attempt.

That said, I think we should treat it as a wake-up call and attempt to use the momentum we have to overturn the '06 law, and getting the recent enforcement reversed would be a good first step.

But also it's pretty well understood that the games got tougher after 2006 when UIGEA passed. We want the recreational fish to not have to jump through hoops, go through friends who have accounts in Mexico, etc. It's also a matter of personal freedom. If we have the right to spend our own money on something like poker (which was actually affirmed in the enforcement, playing is not illegal, depositting or withdrawing is not illegal, but a bank transferring the money is the one committing the crime), why should we have to find loopholes and work-arounds?

I sent my letters out. This is just disgusting! I'm absolutely sick of Big Brother watching me and telling me what I can and can't do with MY money that I earn! I know that they would like to see their greedy little paws get some tax dollars out of it, but for what? To screw it up even more than they already have? This is ridiculous!

The sad part is most people would be fine with taxation and regulation. It's not that they want tax dollars, it's that the lobbyists for Focus on Family and the NFL (they want gambling money to go on football games, not poker, they even got an exemption for fantasy football because THAT is a game of skill) spent money and have influence, and they have convinced too many people that gambling is sinful and that allowing people to gamble will destroy families and yadda yadda yadda. That said, the recent election has shifted it towards our favor. Whether we can get a majority (and not get filibustered) if still up in the air. But especially facing the prospect of a fillibuster we really need to make sure the UIGEA enforcements are overturned by Congress as per the Clinton law about overturning midnight executive orders.

 

[ChurchSkiz]

The sad part is most people would be fine with taxation and regulation. It's not that they want tax dollars, it's that the lobbyists for Focus on Family and the NFL (they want gambling money to go on football games, not poker, they even got an exemption for fantasy football because THAT is a game of skill) spent money and have influence, and they have convinced too many people that gambling is sinful and that allowing people to gamble will destroy families and yadda yadda yadda. That said, the recent election has shifted it towards our favor. Whether we can get a majority (and not get filibustered) if still up in the air. But especially facing the prospect of a fillibuster we really need to make sure the UIGEA enforcements are overturned by Congress as per the Clinton law about overturning midnight executive orders.

Not to get too political but I consider myself a conservative christian and I just don't get why republicans are supporting this. Conservatives are supposed to be the ones championing limited powers of government, more personal freedom, less nanny stating. And yet we are the ones spearheading this effort.

I also don't get the family values appeal. I am a christian and I don't remember the Bible mentioning anything bad about gambling. Yes some people will ruin their lives over gambling, but we can't legislate away everyone's rights to live for the few people that can't control themself. And if politicians want to play that aspect, they would outlaw ALL gambling, and not just online.

 

[zachvac]

And if politicians want to play that aspect, they would outlaw ALL gambling, and not just online.

They should also be outlawing state lotteries, horse racing, and fantasy football, all of which received exemptions under the bill.

 

[zachvac]

Digg - Bush "lame duck" midnight rulemaking targets online poker

Please digg, making an account is not hard if you don't already have one.

 

[bubbasbestbabe]

Here you go, Bush aide pushes gambling ban - Patrick O'Connor - Politico.com
Bush and cronies at their finest.

 

[icemonkey9]

The good news is that this IS NEWS, you know what i mean? It's not a "non issue" and every news organization reporting it that I have seen as made sure to make note of the negative sentiment the UIGEA has!

 

[icemonkey9]

Not to be discouraging, but I did hear back from one of my Senators here in California, Diane Feinstein. She's a horrible Nazi by the way, and was rated
"F-" by the PPA , so I expected her response to be very negative towards my email to her about the UIGEA... I'll cut down the email but it was a "I'll support anything that violates your rights if it even comes close to gambling..." type of email ... I guess her aids also don't proof read their emails to people (obviously I guess she is not reading these herself).

Dear Mr. Gibson:
Thank you for contacting me regarding Internet gambling....I understand your thoughts on internet gambling, and as you may be aware, I have supported legislation aimed at curbing Internet gambling during my tenure in the Senate. For example, I supported the SAFE Port Act, passed into law as Public Law 109-347, which included (as Title VIII) the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006. Again, thank you for your letter. I hop you will continue to keep me informed on issues of importance to you. Best regards.

 

[ncscout]

All of us obviously believe that this is a bad law but the thing to remember is to let Washington know our opinions.Nowadays with the internet we can speak up in just a few minutes with very little effort so do it. In my opinion we need to make sure to put the emphasis on the fact that we are against all legislation that regulates or censors use of the internet. This is a basic violation of our rights to me because the government is saying what we can and can't do with our time and money. One thing to remember is several years ago when prayer was taken out of school. In my opinion, most Americans were not in favor of taking it out. I think that most either wanted it kept in or didn't really care one way or the other but the groups that wanted it out spoke up loud and clear and pushed it through. We can't sit back and be quiet about it or the same thing will happen now. Speak up and let your opinion be known. Get your friends to speak up. This is not just about playing poker. They are trying to tell us what we can and can't do. Everyone who understands that should speak up not just the poker players like us. If anyone made it this far into this post consider one last thing: In the time it took to read this you could have posted your opinion on one of the links to our government.

 

[zachvac]

All of us obviously believe that this is a bad law but the thing to remember is to let Washington know our opinions.Nowadays with the internet we can speak up in just a few minutes with very little effort so do it. In my opinion we need to make sure to put the emphasis on the fact that we are against all legislation that regulates or censors use of the internet. This is a basic violation of our rights to me because the government is saying what we can and can't do with our time and money. One thing to remember is several years ago when prayer was taken out of school. In my opinion, most Americans were not in favor of taking it out. I think that most either wanted it kept in or didn't really care one way or the other but the groups that wanted it out spoke up loud and clear and pushed it through. We can't sit back and be quiet about it or the same thing will happen now. Speak up and let your opinion be known. Get your friends to speak up. This is not just about playing poker. They are trying to tell us what we can and can't do. Everyone who understands that should speak up not just the poker players like us. If anyone made it this far into this post consider one last thing: In the time it took to read this you could have posted your opinion on one of the links to our government.

Very well said. In addition to the links above definitely calling/emailing your Senators congressmen/women will work. Obviously some (like icemonkey's) will already be against it, but there are some who simply aren't educated on the issue. They don't understand that poker is different from other gambling and just don't realize there are people like us all who love playing the game of poker on the internet. Let them know.

 

[orangeyoda654]

such horse crap, it makes no sense. i will write for sure

 

[Team_Ramrod]

OMG! Fillibuster this bill Congress! This thing needs to go into full swing ASAP! I appreciate everyone's help in this matter, Poker Player's Unite!

 

[uofmdef]

i wrote ? i had to say this should not be happen so fast and who gives them the right to control our money and ? we do with it

also i think that the gov just doing this to have time to find a way to tax everyone on their withdraws because they need to collect those taxes no matter how much it is

 

[zachvac]

OMG! Fillibuster this bill Congress! This thing needs to go into full swing ASAP! I appreciate everyone's help in this matter, Poker Player's Unite!

The bill was passed in 2006. Congress had no say in this. What we have to hope for is that Congress doesn't filibuster a bill to end UIGEA.

 

[uofmdef]

http://www.cardschat.com/f13/new-uigea-regulations-what-you-can-133523-post984276/#po

i sent in my reply will they send us anything back to let us know they got your letters ?

 

[gonloft]

I have studied the UIGEA for a paper i made, sincerely its complete bollocks. Luckily i live in the UK