pantin007
member
Silver Level
lol what does ppl did at the start of the game was shady as well
PoKeRFoRNiA
Legend
Bronze Level
Button always shuffled and dealed while small blind cutted. But even after cutted, I'm pretty sure they have ways around it. I have no legitimate proof that they cheated but the vibe wasn't right and my instincts were telling me that this place was shady. Normally, people would jump up and down in their mind if they flop a set. But when I flopped a set, my instincts were telling me that I'm drawing dead and this hand is going to break me. I folded and were able to get lot of information from this, how one of the guys looked disappointed at me and stared at me while utg-2 flopped a straight. Although my reads weren't exactly accurate because I put them on pocket Kings or 10s where I would be drawing dead, he had straight, which was still good enough to prove that I would've lost that round.
PoKeRFoRNiA
Legend
Bronze Level
TY for the compliment. Lately, my instincts have been sharp. I don't know if I've been lucky lately, or if I'm only reading dumbasses/donks full of tells or etc, but my instincts have been sharp as I've proven in this thread.
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/general-poker-13/sick-call-sick-laydown-158756/
Mase31683
Legend
Silver Level
If the players involved in shuffling and cutting are both in on it, it's very simple to reverse a cut. After setting the deck, the person shuffling will cut the deck himself in such a way that the 2nd cut will put the deck back to its original state.
T
ted80
Rock Star
Silver Level
haha, as kids we used to arrange the deck for royal flushes and 4 of a kinds and act like cowboys...but it was never for money (5 draw). most the fights came about playing football and baseball. sanford and son, the card sharps! if you have 20+ mins to spare, this is one of my favorite episodes YouTube - Sanford and Son - The Card Sharps 1-3 YouTube - Sanford and Son - The Card Sharps 2-3 YouTube - Sanford and Son - The Card Sharps 3-3 parts 1-3 respectively and of course...for you western folks YouTube - Trinity is still my name - poker scene trinity is still my name...yeah i know its a spaghetti western and a comedy one at that, but bud and terrence were always funny together
chuG
Rock Star
Silver Level
J
jaggibson
Rock Star
Silver Level
Seams interesting that some people would do that sort of rigging. Either way at least you were able to come out ahead. It has crossed my mind to find some home games online but never have come to that. Don't think i ever will might as well stick to playing with people you know. At least you can feel completely comfortable either way.
Tammy
Can I help you?
Administrator
Here's another really interesting read, laying out all the possible ways people can cheat in live games: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/general-poker-13/home-games-rules-cheating-64199/
PoKeRFoRNiA
Legend
Bronze Level
Those episodes were funny. I like the grandpa in the end who ended up cheating the cons and getting all their money and their clothes.
Mortis
The Saurus
Loyaler
The only time that I play with people that I don't know is at the casino, a neutral territory. Being that I'm not real trusting of the majority of people, I wouldn't go to a stranger's place to play poker with people that I don't know.. I also don't go to many parties.
I'd only play home games with people that I knew, or if they were friends of friends at my friend's house or my house.
I'd only play home games with people that I knew, or if they were friends of friends at my friend's house or my house.
G
Grindit9
Rock Star
Silver Level
Ive got the same attitude towards home games as you do. But when i started playing poker live, i was far more trusting then i am now. Life and learn.
One small example of possible cheat: Guy deals, 4 people total in the hand (end of night and we were short handed). 3 people (me also) go all in pre flop. We flip em open, ive got KK, guy beside me got QQ dealer got AA........
seuatx
Rock Star
Silver Level
LOL OK, I still think your somewhat paranoid But your right you shouldnt play random poker with strangers anyway
L
LizzyJ
Legend
Silver Level
We had a home game about two weeks ago. The buy-in was whatever loose change you had in your pocket. lol. My mom, brothers and two friends. One of my brothers asked, 'are you bottom dealing?"
'Ummm yeah pretty much.' lol. lol.
'Well knock that S**T OFFF'
"alright, alright, don't have to be so grumpy about it'
and yes I was a good 'lil girl the rest of the night.
'Ummm yeah pretty much.' lol. lol.
'Well knock that S**T OFFF'
"alright, alright, don't have to be so grumpy about it'
and yes I was a good 'lil girl the rest of the night.
B
Bobjim37
Rising Star
Silver Level
Im not sure that exact hand as you describe warrants a plot to take your money, I mean one thing is that even you flopped a bottom set, there was both higher sets and straight possibilities on the table. I imagine if they really wanted to trap you they would have given you something you couldnt possibly fold, like 922 and let ur boat loose to quads 2´s or something.
Another thing is that after the flop there was action in front of you, bet and raise, if this was some kind of plot where the other guys in the hand were involved they would have checked to you and let you bet.
Apart from that I fully agree to be very careful getting involved in home games with unknown people...
PoKeRFoRNiA
Legend
Bronze Level
I have no legitimate proof that they're cheating but dont you think it's quite suspicious when you see two quads within 20 hands? people flopping sets 6-7 times within 1-2 hours, and someone flopping a straight while I flop bottom set? I don't think that qualifies for being coincidence. And take note, this wasn't online where you play many hands. THis was live game. Why is it that my instincts were telling me to fold a set and ends up being the best decision? One of the guys who previously had quads looked disappointed when I folded my set as if he knew what I had. Why else would he stare at me when there's action still going? Subconsciously, people focus and look at players who are still in the pot and do not look at players who are not in the pot.
L
LizzyJ
Legend
Silver Level
Well, you played enough poker to have developed good poker instincts. you were probably right
B
Bobjim37
Rising Star
Silver Level
I was not there, and I have no problem believing you in general, the whole scene as you describe it sounds like a game I would probably regret entering and trying to get out of as quickly as possible myself.
Im just saying that that exact hand (as you describe it)doesnt really sound like a smoking gun to me. Of course, together with other weird hands and strange reactions around the table to your fold it might have been the hand that finally convinced you of a fixed game...If you were suspicious already I mean
Mr. Pink
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Sorry to be bumping up an old thread, but I just caught it now.
Although I understand why people say that, I have to say that I do not fully agree with this philosophy.
First of all, I never play cards (for money) with any of my friends. The reasons is very simple. I have my friends for other things. I never take money form friends, especially not on the turn of a card. I think that engaging in a money game against friends is basically wrong.
This leaves me with the other option: Only play cards with strangers.
Now, that philosophy makes perfect sense to me, because I have no attachment with any of these people after I leave the game. If anything goes wrong, it takes absolutely no effort to have these people out of my life permanently.
Also, consider this. We all know how many people play online poker. Well, who the hell are these other player? Who the hell are the owners of the poker sites? How are the virtual cards really being distributed? No one can really say that anyone knows the real answers to that, and yet, milions of people engage in online games, against total strangers that are virtually invisible behind IP numbers. So, it would appear, most people do play with strangers, after all. It's just that we've come to accept these virtual online "friendships" as real. Which is clearly not the case.
This is, in short, what I can say about this approach to picking whom I like to see at theother side of a card table. Of course, we can talk about this in length, but the point of this post is that pokerlovesme thinks he ended up in a crooked poker game. Well, I say, at least (luckily) this was not an online game. You still had the chance to see who these folks are, in real flesh and blood, and if you really thought you had to do something about the situation, you always had the chance to hang these bastards by the balls, in their own flesh and blood.
So, the other question that pokerlovesme asked was if any of us have ever ended up in games where there were card mechanics.
This is somewhat of a tricky question. Because if these mechanics were any good, the people you are asking would have no idea about it. The other issue is that most poker cheats are mobbed up. There is usually just one mechanic and the others ply different roles. If you guys want to know more about those things, please feel free to initiate a new thread and I'll tell you some things you may want to know.
Also, this was a really low stakes game. This means that it is unlikely that any really good mechanics were woprking that game. Well, I can actually tell by the description of events... all these quads that pokerlovesme described. If these guys were cheating, I have to say they were amateurs. A mob of real professional cheats would orchestrate things in such way that there would be a minimal number of showdowns. As we all know, in poker, one can take a pot without a showdown. Yes, it is usually a smaller pot, but in the long run the pigeons have no idea what cards the sharks were playing.
So, sorry again for bumping up this relatively old thread. I personally think that the issue of cheating is not discussed enough amongst poker players. Also, I happen to know quite a bit on the subject, so if you guys want to talk about any of these issues, please start a thread and I'll join in.
Well, this is a slightly different phrasing of the old saying, "Never play cards with strangers."
Although I understand why people say that, I have to say that I do not fully agree with this philosophy.
First of all, I never play cards (for money) with any of my friends. The reasons is very simple. I have my friends for other things. I never take money form friends, especially not on the turn of a card. I think that engaging in a money game against friends is basically wrong.
This leaves me with the other option: Only play cards with strangers.
Now, that philosophy makes perfect sense to me, because I have no attachment with any of these people after I leave the game. If anything goes wrong, it takes absolutely no effort to have these people out of my life permanently.
Also, consider this. We all know how many people play online poker. Well, who the hell are these other player? Who the hell are the owners of the poker sites? How are the virtual cards really being distributed? No one can really say that anyone knows the real answers to that, and yet, milions of people engage in online games, against total strangers that are virtually invisible behind IP numbers. So, it would appear, most people do play with strangers, after all. It's just that we've come to accept these virtual online "friendships" as real. Which is clearly not the case.
This is, in short, what I can say about this approach to picking whom I like to see at theother side of a card table. Of course, we can talk about this in length, but the point of this post is that pokerlovesme thinks he ended up in a crooked poker game. Well, I say, at least (luckily) this was not an online game. You still had the chance to see who these folks are, in real flesh and blood, and if you really thought you had to do something about the situation, you always had the chance to hang these bastards by the balls, in their own flesh and blood.
So, the other question that pokerlovesme asked was if any of us have ever ended up in games where there were card mechanics.
This is somewhat of a tricky question. Because if these mechanics were any good, the people you are asking would have no idea about it. The other issue is that most poker cheats are mobbed up. There is usually just one mechanic and the others ply different roles. If you guys want to know more about those things, please feel free to initiate a new thread and I'll tell you some things you may want to know.
Also, this was a really low stakes game. This means that it is unlikely that any really good mechanics were woprking that game. Well, I can actually tell by the description of events... all these quads that pokerlovesme described. If these guys were cheating, I have to say they were amateurs. A mob of real professional cheats would orchestrate things in such way that there would be a minimal number of showdowns. As we all know, in poker, one can take a pot without a showdown. Yes, it is usually a smaller pot, but in the long run the pigeons have no idea what cards the sharks were playing.
So, sorry again for bumping up this relatively old thread. I personally think that the issue of cheating is not discussed enough amongst poker players. Also, I happen to know quite a bit on the subject, so if you guys want to talk about any of these issues, please start a thread and I'll join in.
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jacksprat
Rock Star
Silver Level
Game - 5 card stud PL – short deck (all cards 2 through 6 removed). .. 8 handed, if more players left on final card then one tunover card counts for all (rarely happened).
Setting - Pokey, smelly, fly filled room, dominated by large pro looking poker table.
Outside – No street lighting, several dark alleys
Players originally – We were all snooker players, the snooker hall closed at 11PM Friday, stud time.
We had been playing for several months, and as the weeks went by, more and more players would turn up and Queue for a game. The guy who ran the game, also the dealer (5% rake) got greedy and put the buy in up to £50 from the original £20. As a consequence four of the snooker players quit the game, and we had to put up with all sorts of drunken reprobates coming in off the streets when the pubs chucked them out.
3 AM satuday August 1980
Players – guy, first day out of prison - 4 snooker players - 2 drunks – vicious hard nut. Other drunks queueing in spare room.
No phone in the house and pre mobile phone days.
Playing chips – none – cash on the table.
The guy from prison 3 £100buy ins, vicious hard nut 2 £100 buy ins, other drunks come and gone - eight, which included 3 £50 buyins. There is £1,200 cash at the table of which rake roughly £100.
Big hand with one round of betting to come –
vicious guy *AA8 –
snooker player(1) *KKQ
– drunk *T8A.
I had folded -*A- first round of betting.
Snooker (2)player folded - *8 – first round of betting
My pal the snooker player was well aware, he is not up against a FH because he had been counting the cards. He also figured that the remaining 7 hole cards are quite likely to be favourable incase he is up against 2 pairs, judging by the betting patterns of the other 3 unmentioned players - who all folded betting round 2 after hitting non improvement low cards.
The vicious guy goes allin for his remaining £40.
The pot is now around the £250 mark. Before calling my pal explains, I think you have an 8 in the hole, but I have to call because there could be several kings and Queens amongst the hole cards, basically I have value to call.
Vicious guy has - AA88
Snooker player – KKQQ
Last card – K
Vicious guy goes nuts and turns the table over on me (luckily, my cash, the pot and most everybodys money fell around me). Prison guy grabs a handful of money (probably his), and sides with the nutter. A few players and the dealer got a slap or two (I was still under the table!). They then threatened, (we all believed them) to rob and beat us up as and when we leave.
The two drunks then argued about their stack sizes with the broken nosed dealer. We settled on giving them £60 each, definately an overpayment. At least they could leave safely, there were five more drunks waiting. We knew there could be a problem, so we gave them £20 each, and they left quite happily.
It took us a good hour to sort out the remaing cash, but atleast four of us were good friends. Our main arguement was with the dealer(now black eyed and broken nosed). Eventually he settled on £100. He locked the door and played with us, by 6AM we had relieved him of his £100.
6.30 AM, one of the wives turned up to collect her husband(normally we are pissed off to see her). Upon entering the house she tells us about these two dubious looking guys waiting in an Alley round the corner. Thankyou very much we all said, gathered up our cash and took the opposite way out( long way to her car)
Although it was a nice little earner, none of us ever played there again. I heard a month or two later it was raided by police and closed for good. Serves the owner/dealer right!
I say - DO NOT PLAY POKER IN SHADY PLACES
Setting - Pokey, smelly, fly filled room, dominated by large pro looking poker table.
Outside – No street lighting, several dark alleys
Players originally – We were all snooker players, the snooker hall closed at 11PM Friday, stud time.
We had been playing for several months, and as the weeks went by, more and more players would turn up and Queue for a game. The guy who ran the game, also the dealer (5% rake) got greedy and put the buy in up to £50 from the original £20. As a consequence four of the snooker players quit the game, and we had to put up with all sorts of drunken reprobates coming in off the streets when the pubs chucked them out.
3 AM satuday August 1980
Players – guy, first day out of prison - 4 snooker players - 2 drunks – vicious hard nut. Other drunks queueing in spare room.
No phone in the house and pre mobile phone days.
Playing chips – none – cash on the table.
The guy from prison 3 £100buy ins, vicious hard nut 2 £100 buy ins, other drunks come and gone - eight, which included 3 £50 buyins. There is £1,200 cash at the table of which rake roughly £100.
Big hand with one round of betting to come –
vicious guy *AA8 –
snooker player(1) *KKQ
– drunk *T8A.
I had folded -*A- first round of betting.
Snooker (2)player folded - *8 – first round of betting
My pal the snooker player was well aware, he is not up against a FH because he had been counting the cards. He also figured that the remaining 7 hole cards are quite likely to be favourable incase he is up against 2 pairs, judging by the betting patterns of the other 3 unmentioned players - who all folded betting round 2 after hitting non improvement low cards.
The vicious guy goes allin for his remaining £40.
The pot is now around the £250 mark. Before calling my pal explains, I think you have an 8 in the hole, but I have to call because there could be several kings and Queens amongst the hole cards, basically I have value to call.
Vicious guy has - AA88
Snooker player – KKQQ
Last card – K
Vicious guy goes nuts and turns the table over on me (luckily, my cash, the pot and most everybodys money fell around me). Prison guy grabs a handful of money (probably his), and sides with the nutter. A few players and the dealer got a slap or two (I was still under the table!). They then threatened, (we all believed them) to rob and beat us up as and when we leave.
The two drunks then argued about their stack sizes with the broken nosed dealer. We settled on giving them £60 each, definately an overpayment. At least they could leave safely, there were five more drunks waiting. We knew there could be a problem, so we gave them £20 each, and they left quite happily.
It took us a good hour to sort out the remaing cash, but atleast four of us were good friends. Our main arguement was with the dealer(now black eyed and broken nosed). Eventually he settled on £100. He locked the door and played with us, by 6AM we had relieved him of his £100.
6.30 AM, one of the wives turned up to collect her husband(normally we are pissed off to see her). Upon entering the house she tells us about these two dubious looking guys waiting in an Alley round the corner. Thankyou very much we all said, gathered up our cash and took the opposite way out( long way to her car)
Although it was a nice little earner, none of us ever played there again. I heard a month or two later it was raided by police and closed for good. Serves the owner/dealer right!
I say - DO NOT PLAY POKER IN SHADY PLACES
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beechleaf
Rock Star
Silver Level
I think you did the right thing by leaving. and reading your post yes I think there where three or for in on the scam. Now I use too live in Las Vegas and Knew one of the Professers at UNLV hes was teaching math and in one of his demonstrations he let one of the students shuffle the cards mix them on the table how ever they wanted he was allowed too shuffle the cards after them and then turn over first 4 cards too see each tyme this was done he could bring the four aces too the top.He show the class that the deck was marked and how he marked it so as too know where the aces where but you had too look close too see the markings and if you where drinking and chatting you really wouldn't have noticed it.And if your playing against dealers who work with cards eight jours a day be sure there excellent counters my Mom dealt for thirty years in Reno and Las Vegas and could tell when players would have winning hands and when too bet big on BJ and poker. This is why most clubs dont allow conversations among dealers and players so there no colusion too rip off casinos.Not too mention schuffling machines so cards cant bee stacked in player's favor.Too me unkown home games can bee dangrous yes they might have let you win the first night your there and take home 5xs your buy in and look like fishes, then they invite you back and you bring a big br too really take um down with only too find out you where the fish and you where set up all along.as far as on line ya it sucks too have your set of A's cracked buy a donkey with 72 suited who flushes on the river but attibute that too the TV programs. Too me if you play solid poker in the long run you'll be a head