Minimum Limit You Can Play To Make A Living

[RoyalFish]

What if you don't have a 9 to 5 to job and can't get one?
Where do you suppose I get that kind of money?

Easy. If you're a winning player, start with $45,000 and grind to $90,000. Don't have $45,000? Start with $22,500 and grind... Get the picture?

I know, but what if you're a losing player and need to get to a $90,000 BR? Well then you start with $180,000...

RF

 

[ciukster]

I doubt you could make a reasonable living playing at $1/$2 NLH on line. I am sure some guys will prove me wrong but they will be the exception rather than the rule.

totally agree with this.

$10/$20 maybe...

 

[Sean Pilgrim]

If you want to attempt this. Here's some suggestions.

If you're playing live:

1. Don't quit your job. I don't know how much you make but for me I put aside 10%-20% of each paycheck into a savings account which is my poker money account. 20% of my paycheck is $250.

2. Do this for every check you have until you reach $2500. Biweekly 10 Checks.

3. Play $1/$2 NL. On Fridays and/or Saturdays only for 5 weeks. You'll generally make some money on these days in particular. Of the money you have made/lost. Calculate how many hours you spent there that day.

3a. If you have lost money. Don't even think about playing for a living.*

3b. If you have made money. Continue on to step 4.

4. If your work entitles you to paid vacation time. Use it.

5. That whole week you are off go to your card room. Play Monday - Friday for the same hours you would normally work, including a one hour away from the table lunch break.

6. Saturday. Recalculate your profit/losses per hour. If you are down 15% or more for the week. You need more training and you're not ready for it.

* 3a. If you lose money on Fridays and Saturdays to recreational players. No way you could swing with the regulars, the players who ARE there to make money. So don't even try.

--------------------------

This is what I did to start. My live bankroll is growing with each day I play. Definitely not enough to live off for playing poker but I am happy that I started with $2500 and now my savings account is nearing $7K after 2.5 months of playing live generally 3 - 4 days a week for 4 - 5 (sometimes 8) hours of play each session.

I know it sounds like I'm making enough to live off of right now because of the near $4,500 in profit, but I took a bad beating a couple weeks ago when I ran into a straight flush when I held the Ace high flush against a lucky loose semi-donk who accumulated near the same amount of chips as I had and he had only been there for 1 hour. I took an $800 hit and I should have walked once I hit $800 but I was putting my chips in racks and then was dealt the Ad Kd, flopped the nut flush, he flopped a straight flush. The chips remained in the rack as they we're slid across the table to him.

So just take it into consideration.

 

[IcyBlueAce]

If you want to attempt this. Here's some suggestions.

If you're playing live:

1. Don't quit your job. I don't know how much you make but for me I put aside 10%-20% of each paycheck into a savings account which is my poker money account. 20% of my paycheck is $250.

2. Do this for every check you have until you reach $2500. Biweekly 10 Checks.

3. Play $1/$2 NL. On Fridays and/or Saturdays only for 5 weeks. You'll generally make some money on these days in particular. Of the money you have made/lost. Calculate how many hours you spent there that day.

3a. If you have lost money. Don't even think about playing for a living.*

3b. If you have made money. Continue on to step 4.

4. If your work entitles you to paid vacation time. Use it.

5. That whole week you are off go to your card room. Play Monday - Friday for the same hours you would normally work, including a one hour away from the table lunch break.

6. Saturday. Recalculate your profit/losses per hour. If you are down 15% or more for the week. You need more training and you're not ready for it.

* 3a. If you lose money on Fridays and Saturdays to recreational players. No way you could swing with the regulars, the players who ARE there to make money. So don't even try.

--------------------------

This is what I did to start. My live bankroll is growing with each day I play. Definitely not enough to live off for playing poker but I am happy that I started with $2500 and now my savings account is nearing $7K after 2.5 months of playing live generally 3 - 4 days a week for 4 - 5 (sometimes 8) hours of play each session.

I know it sounds like I'm making enough to live off of right now because of the near $4,500 in profit, but I took a bad beating a couple weeks ago when I ran into a straight flush when I held the Ace high flush against a lucky loose semi-donk who accumulated near the same amount of chips as I had and he had only been there for 1 hour. I took an $800 hit and I should have walked once I hit $800 but I was putting my chips in racks and then was dealt the Ad Kd, flopped the nut flush, he flopped a straight flush. The chips remained in the rack as they we're slid across the table to him.

So just take it into consideration.

You make some very clear and valid points but what I don't get is why should you save a bunch of money, then play poker? You have no stakes to move down to when you hit a certain amount, making any sort of BRM pretty pointless.

To me it makes more sense to just use the money you use every paycheck or so and play with that. That way you can't blow your whole poker savings in one night. You'll have a week or two to think some more about poker and not lose yourself on tilt.

 

[Sean Pilgrim]

You make some very clear and valid points but what I don't get is why should you save a bunch of money, then play poker? You have no stakes to move down to when you hit a certain amount, making any sort of BRM pretty pointless.

To me it makes more sense to just use the money you use every paycheck or so and play with that. That way you can't blow your whole poker savings in one night. You'll have a week or two to think some more about poker and not lose yourself on tilt.

No no the point is to build a BR comfortably while still working 9 - 5 and if you are a winning player you keep depositing your winnings into your savings account so eventually if what you REALLY want to do is play poker for a living you have enough money saved up for living expenses etc. Now if you're a rec player, your paycheck is fine, if you get paid on friday and want to go play some cards, but this thread is not about taking $200 out of your paycheck to play "for fun" it's titled "Minimum Limit You Can Play To Make A Living"

 

[Xavier]

Easy. If you're a winning player, start with $45,000 and grind to $90,000. Don't have $45,000? Start with $22,500 and grind... Get the picture?

I know, but what if you're a losing player and need to get to a $90,000 BR? Well then you start with $180,000...

RF

I have a just over $2000 bankroll online now and am going to start playing 8 hours a day 5 days a week in January and see how well I can do, hopefully moving up the stakes

 

[baudib1]

This is the kind of thing that if you have to ask questions about it, you probably shouldn't consider quitting your day job. Once you are good enough and make enough money that it's obvious you can do poker professionally, you'll know it.

 

[RoyalFish]

This is the kind of thing that if you have to ask questions about it, you probably shouldn't consider quitting your day job. Once you are good enough and make enough money that it's obvious you can do poker professionally, you'll know it.

I like this, though I'm just another amateur speculating. I figure I'm good to go when the money I make at my day job no longer feels like it's worth getting out of bed for.

RF

 

[dmorris68]

so a full time job + 50hours a week when wold you have time for "discretionary spending" ??

Re-read my quote. I said 50-60 hours per month.

You don't need BRM if your playing the lowest possible stakes. Nothing to "move down to" -- so its no different if you save up the money then play with it or play with the money as you make it from your job.

If you disagree, then kindly explain why my logic is wrong.

Because BRM is about more than just "moving down." If you are not properly rolled for the levels you play, you cannot survive the inevitable swings, which means you go broke and can't play until your next income rolls around.

But the point is really moot, because at "the lowest possible" stakes (2NL), you're talking only a $40 bankroll @ 20 BI's of 100bb (the general standard for minimum BR). Given that the point of this thread is making a living at poker, then penny stakes and $40 rolls don't really enter into the argument anyway.

 

[IcyBlueAce]

Re-read my quote. I said 50-60 hours per month.


Because BRM is about more than just "moving down." If you are not properly rolled for the levels you play, you cannot survive the inevitable swings, which means you go broke and can't play until your next income rolls around.

But the point is really moot, because at "the lowest possible" stakes (2NL), you're talking only a $40 bankroll @ 20 BI's of 100bb (the general standard for minimum BR). Given that the point of this thread is making a living at poker, then penny stakes and $40 rolls don't really enter into the argument anyway.

Apparently you don't get it.

 

[dillingerdis]

I have an still do (for the most part) live off of around 12K a year, usually less. I read here 4K a month to live comfortably? I had car payments, but its payed off, rent, child, girlfriend, love drinking beer, cell phone, play poker, bbq almost everyday in the summer, have a 2 keg party planned for new years...dont understand where this need to have so much comes from. In my opinion, living off of 1/2 NL if you dont need the stuff you really dont need (aka your $100 pants and $50 sushi) is totally possible. If youre not a losing player at that limit and you skip buying useless stuff all the time it can happen. Shit, put in enough time and multitable .50/1 and youll probably do good. Stop trying to be like those guys on 2 months 2 million and youll be fine (plus you wont look like a complete douche like they do).

 

[dmorris68]

Apparently you don't get it.

Apparently not. Why don't you enlighten me, Mr. Professional?

 

[Xavier]

I have an still do (for the most part) live off of around 12K a year, usually less. I read here 4K a month to live comfortably? I had car payments, but its payed off, rent, child, girlfriend, love drinking beer, cell phone, play poker, bbq almost everyday in the summer, have a 2 keg party planned for new years...dont understand where this need to have so much comes from.

I agree.
$4000 a month is huge. I certainly don't know many people who earn that much.
The average 9 to 5 job probably only pays $2000 a month if that, and a lot of people earn way less than that.

 

[BLieve]

Think about winrates and hands/month. Let's say you need $4k a month to live nicely - rent, car, food, internet, girlfriend, whatever.

A really good player will win at 3BB/100 at $1/$2.
A good player will play (at the minimum) 500 hands per hour.

Playing 100 hands = $12

10,000 hands = $1,200
40,000 hands = $4,800

So let's just call it 35,000 hands are needed per month at $1/$2 if you're a GREAT winning player to make around what you need to live.

35000 (hands) / 500 (hands per hour) = 70 Hours

So that's not bad. 70 hours in a month. Seems kinda doable lol. Go go go!

500 hands per hour? I play fullring 4 tables and get about 250 in. So if you are running 6 tables 6 max thats about 500 I guess but I would disagree thats the minimum a good player plays.

 

[Sean Pilgrim]

500 hands per hour? I play fullring 4 tables and get about 250 in. So if you are running 6 tables 6 max thats about 500 I guess but I would disagree thats the minimum a good player plays.

Here's where the inevitable FR or 6-Max question comes into play for online players. I dunno I'd rather play live for a living, except last night I pretty much got shit faced and found myself down $700.

 

[dmorris68]

I agree.
$4000 a month is huge. I certainly don't know many people who earn that much.
The average 9 to 5 job probably only pays $2000 a month if that, and a lot of people earn way less than that.

Gross or net? Single or family? $24K/yr is right around poverty level for a family of 4. If you're single and debt free, then sure it's probably a decent wage if you don't have expensive taste or hobbies.

My son-in-law works at the phone company and makes more than that. My son works as a cook at Chili's and makes about that much, plus his wife makes more as an HR clerk. Both have kids and mortgages and barely make ends meet.

I can remember when 24K/yr (or its equivalent back then) seemed like a lot, but it's been nearly 20 years since I made that little myself, so it's all a matter of perspective -- I'd be hating life if I took that much of a pay cut now. Analogous to closet and hard drive space, lifestyles tend to grow to fill available income capacity. So there's no way I'd be able to play poker for a living for a "measly" $4000/month. Not even double that.

 

[Xavier]

Gross or net? Single or family? $24K/yr is right around poverty level for a family of 4. If you're single and debt free, then sure it's probably a decent wage if you don't have expensive taste or hobbies.

I meant as a net salary just for one person who is single.
Where I live for people my age in their 20s that would be well above average.

 

[salim271]

Well... when you look at guys on full tilt like foxypham, frank1the1tank and doubledave22... they've just gotten so good at tournaments it seems they just play once or twice a week. They multitable a bunch of big buy in tourneys and get really really deep in one or two. Their play when they reach the end is extraordinary, I've seen them go from 30th place and nearly gone to 2nd or first in chips, usually taking down the whole thing or finishing in second. They seem to put down on avg 10K every two weeks the way they play lol... and im not sure it might be higher.

They play about 5-8 tournaments ranging from 50-300 buy-ins over a period of time, but when you compare it to what they make in the one or two tourneys they get deep in its nothing, maybe a thousand lost and more gained.

 

[leon818]

there is no such thing as min limit. Just play the limit that you can affort and. bank mangagment is important.

 

[salim271]

I heard 1/2 live can be really easy at the right table... like playing .01/.02 online...? Any truth to that?

 

[BelgoSuisse]

Fwiw, I've made about $2k/month in 2009, playing recreationally, i.e. a little less than 50 hours per month, a mix of 100nl and 200nl, averaging about 500 hands/hour, so about 300k hands over the year. If you play full time, it's obviously possible to live off poker at 100nl, provided you're good enough to beat it...

The hard part is that i've had days where i've won or lost about $2k, and that would be quite soul-crushing if I had to rely on that money for other things than hookers and blow.

 

[sammyfive]

Fwiw, I've made about $2k/month in 2009, playing recreationally, i.e. a little less than 50 hours per month, a mix of 100nl and 200nl, averaging about 500 hands/hour, so about 300k hands over the year. If you play full time, it's obviously possible to live off poker at 100nl, provided you're good enough to beat it...

The hard part is that i've had days where i've won or lost about $2k, and that would be quite soul-crushing if I had to rely on that money for other things than hookers and blow.

Did you play online? One table?

 

[BelgoSuisse]

Did you play online? One table?

500 hands/hour would be a really fast table...

Mostly 6 or 8 tabling, with some sessions up to 16 when i felt like randomly mashing buttons.

 

[salim271]

500 hands/hour would be a really fast table...

Mostly 6 or 8 tabling, with some sessions up to 16 when i felt like randomly mashing buttons.

Quick question about multitabling, are you implementing the idea of BRM on each table (like only risking 5 percent of your roll per table, or are you risking 5 percent all together?)

 

[BelgoSuisse]

Quick question about multitabling, are you implementing the idea of BRM on each table (like only risking 5 percent of your roll per table, or are you risking 5 percent all together?)

5% is lol when you play seriously. 20 buy-ins downswings can happen several times per year. I personally don't play without at least 60 buy-ins for the stake, but i'd want at least 100 if this was actually my job and not a hobby.

Obviously applies for each table, not for all of them together. The goal is to protect against the variance of the cards, and cards dealt at different tables are independent variables, whether you play them simultaneously or at different times.