LIVE RULES/ETIQUETTE QUESTION.

[ChurchSkiz]

You should have asked to see the cards. Or the other people at the table could have said something. I see this was more of a friendly game then at a casino. No doubt if it was at a casino it would have been show one show all.

Exactly what I was thinking. I'm not a rule expert but couldn't you have the dealer show all hands at that point since everyone at the table had access to information about a live hand (similar to an exposed card)? If not, would it be illegal to ask other players at the table what he showed?

 

[Mighty Kites]

If you want to see someone showing their cards during a tourney, check out scotty nguyen at last years HORSE 50,000 event at wsop

 

[OzExorcist]

Exactly what I was thinking. I'm not a rule expert but couldn't you have the dealer show all hands at that point since everyone at the table had access to information about a live hand (similar to an exposed card)? If not, would it be illegal to ask other players at the table what he showed?

"Show one show all" is a rule found much more commonly in bar games or home games than it is in a casino.

The important thing to remember in this hand though (and I'm pretty sure this is something the floor would take into consideration) is that there's only one other live hand in the game at this stage - the OP's. And OP didn't see the cards.

So while the player has done something wrong in showing others his hand, he hasn't actually affected the action in the hand yet. Maybe he's given away some extra information in the reactions of the players he's shown. But he hasn't directly affected the action.

It certainly wouldn't be against the rules for the OP to ask the other players what the cards they saw were. Whether it's kosher for those players to give an answer (accurate or otherwise) is a completely different matter. FWIW if I were the dealer, I'd be asking them not to answer. Especially since there's an innocent third party (the player who's all in) involved as well.

 

[postflopper]

to ride on this thread, i have a question of my own about live etiquette.

i was playing live at crown casino, and raised utg. everyone folded, or so i thought, and as the blinds folded, i pushed my cards towards the muck. note, it was still some distance from the muck, literally speaking. the player beside me immediately pointed to me that the button had called my raise, and i instantly dragged my cards back. i was berated loudly by the dealer, saying that she should muck my cards. though i apologised, she still shot me dirty looks during the hand.

i took the pot down though, with a bet on the flop and turn.

so my question is. with the muck rule as follows: cards that touch the muck are declared dead. what about cards that are discarded accidentally like in my situation but have yet to literally HIT the muck, and are taken back by the player before the dealer can drag them into the muck. are they still considered to be 'live'?

 

[OzExorcist]

so my question is. with the muck rule as follows: cards that touch the muck are declared dead. what about cards that are discarded accidentally like in my situation but have yet to literally HIT the muck, and are taken back by the player before the dealer can drag them into the muck. are they still considered to be 'live'?

Since you were allowed to continue with the hand (dirty looks aside) I guess the answer is yes, they're still live.

FWIW I really can't see what the dealer's problem was here - sounds like it was a one-off honest mistake. If you were doing it repeatedly as an angle shoot or something then maybe there's a problem, but once when you thought everyone had folded? Don't see what the problem was.

 

[Igeso]

I think cards are declared "mucked" when player releases his cards. Remember the situation with the chips on WSOP 2008 , there was a similar situation when a guy pushed 1M in chips, then he took 'em back and bet like 350K. He haven't released the chips, so that was good play, thought.