That right there should put everything into perspective in regards to tournament poker. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a 125% roi does not exactly sound sustainable, ha
No, it doesn't sound feasible at all, for a "daily basis" game. I think ROI gets misunderstood when used like that, and you are spot on about "perspective"; it just is not a big enough example.
Some people actually think ROI cannot be used at all for cash games. I think it gets used backwards, frankly! IMO, you use ROI for cash games both on a daily basis and overall for a week or month. You use ROI only over a much longer period for MTT games, never on a daily basis
except to decide the type of game you should be in. Either way, it's the still same math!
If I pay $10.00 to enter an MTT and win $10.00, my ROI is 100%. 100% is breaking even. If I win $20.00 in that same game, my ROI is 200%; I have doubled my money. If I do not make the money in that game, I have a negative ROI. Yet, this really does not tell me anything! It's only one game. So I would instead use my totals over
one week or one month.
This is going to give me a much better figure. If I played one $10.00 buy in MTT game M-F, that is $50.00 invested per week. That is approximately $200.00 per month. Now, what did you win? If less than $200.00 total, you have a negative ROI, more than $200.00 you have a positive ROI. If you are in the negative, you need to look at that prize structure and decide if you placed in the money enough times (
days you had a positive ROI or some return, period!) that you can possibly play a better game structure to pull you into the positive. The closer you are to breaking even, the better. Maybe playing a $20.00 game every day can make those times you make the money overcome the amount in buy-ins.
For that, I would look at how many out of the 20 games I cashed (again, my "daily" ROI), how many out of the 20 I won, if any. If I cash 20% of the games and win 1%, then I can apply that to the cash payouts of the $20.00 game and see what it calcs out to. I might find that cashing 20% and winning 1% will see me have a positive ROI in a $20.00 game. Still, it also greatly depends on that payout structure, number of players, fish level, etc; I have to look at enough games to decide if I am consistent per number of players total. I have to see if It is a fish game @ $10.00 or has way better players @ $20.00 and if I can still maintain those percentages. This is about all a daily ROI figure in an MTT can help tell you.
For cash games, well, maybe I should just not go there. As I said, some people just do not think ROI can be used at all for cash games because there is not a "set" investment made. I just disagree. If you are sitting down with $10.00 in a cash game, you are putting $10 at risk. I see money you are at risk of losing the same as an "investment" you make. Many do not see it that way. Also, they do not realize, perhaps, it is the same math. If I need to know what my profit was for one cash session, I need to subtract what I sat down with from what I won and divide by hours played to get my average hourly wins. So if that was $10.00 of my $100.00 BR I sat down with and I walked away with $20.00 after two hours, I am making $5.00 per hour and yet my
ROI for that one game was 200%; I "invested" $10.00 and won $20.00. Again, this is too small a sample for any meaningful accuracy and the nature of cash games might see you making far less ROI over a set time than in MTT's. You really want that hourly figure in a cash game, not ROI per say. If you are somehow sustaining a 200% ROI in cash games, you might want to move up a level.
IOW, in MTT's you win in "chunks", in cash games you win in "pieces". I think this is why Poker O misunderstood what I meant by "cash game math" in MTT's. While 125% does not sound sustainable, think about what the pros are pulling in; one $10k entry and you win $1mill, well; you can see how that will affect your overall ROI in a year or over a career. For example, look at Antonio Esfandiari; his life time wins are around what; 18-20 mill? If you calc out what he spent to get there (MTT only), it is way more than 125% ROI and will be for some time to come. So he is able to sustain that high ROI, depending on how you look at it.