For experienced players: For every 10 games, how many do you win?
doops
Visionary
Silver Level
That's a nice run you are having. It's kinda hard to believe, but, hey, it could happen. Enjoy it while it lasts.
I tend to run about 35-50% ITM in 9 person sngs. It's harder to track now that OPR doesn not include SNGs anymore. I have done better for brief periods, and worse at times. Times like now, actually. It's best not to get too cocky.
I tend to run about 35-50% ITM in 9 person sngs. It's harder to track now that OPR doesn not include SNGs anymore. I have done better for brief periods, and worse at times. Times like now, actually. It's best not to get too cocky.
left52side
Legend
Silver Level
For SNGS,which I havent played on a regular basis in a while,seemed to finsh ITM on average of around 60% at the 5.00 level.
For my MTT I generally make ITMaorund 12 to 15% of the time.
Which I think is about average.
Now of course there are the all mighty swings of nolimit play that are not accounted for both good and bad.
But just as an average them are my numbers.
For my MTT I generally make ITMaorund 12 to 15% of the time.
Which I think is about average.
Now of course there are the all mighty swings of nolimit play that are not accounted for both good and bad.
But just as an average them are my numbers.
dmorris68
Legend
Loyaler
Only 431 hands? Definitely a short-term heater across an extremely small sample, so small as to be statistically insignificant. I often play that many hands in one session, easily. When you have about 25x that number of hands, then you might get some meaningful info from them . Don't get too caught up in it, as it won't be sustainable unless you just happen to be the latest poker prodigy that started winning from Day One and never let up.O.k Guys...
Today I Installed PokerTracker 3, and I want to show you What I as talking about in my origginal post:
What do you think? Any advice?
Cheers!
dmorris68
Legend
Loyaler
Well "making money" is a relative term. Obviously the higher you place, the size of the field, and the higher the stakes, the more you you make. I just started playing MTT's and SnG's again after a year or so playing FR only, and at first I didn't adjust well (it's a completely different game). So my numbers tanked at first and I ran at -ROI for maybe 20-30 tourneys until things started clicking, but since then I've done pretty well. Right now according to OPR I'm showing a 17% ITM on FT but with a ridiculously high ROI thanks to a big MTT 1st place finish, a 180-man 2nd place finish, and several smaller but decent SnG cashes all over the last few weeks (so yeah, I'm on a bit of a heater too).
If you're only playing 9-man SnG's then you won't get maximum ROI on your buy-in, so a 15% ITM rate won't show much earnings. ROI will increase with larger fields, assuming you maintain a similar ITM rate.
doops
Visionary
Silver Level
In 9 man SNGs, you will not be making money with a 15% cash rate. Even if you are #1 on each of the 15%. Say, 100 $5.50 games: cost $550. 15 $22.50 wins: 347.50. Loss: $202.50.
To have an overall positive ROI, you need to be cashing about 30%, if you mostly come in #1. (30 $22.50 wins=$675, for a $125 profit.)
So figure about 40%+ for a profitable range of cashes.
This is not as hard as it looks-- 3 out of 9 people cash. That's 33% chance of cashing, if you have a decent game. If you cash a little over a third of the time (as you should), you will show a profit.
To have an overall positive ROI, you need to be cashing about 30%, if you mostly come in #1. (30 $22.50 wins=$675, for a $125 profit.)
So figure about 40%+ for a profitable range of cashes.
This is not as hard as it looks-- 3 out of 9 people cash. That's 33% chance of cashing, if you have a decent game. If you cash a little over a third of the time (as you should), you will show a profit.
L
LarryT503
Rock Star
Silver Level
Congrats! Sure, maybe a bit of a hotstreak right now, but played conservatively I think you can end in the money more often than not. I would encourage you to try the double up sng's. Half the players win so a good player can finish in the money pretty consistenly. I do when I settle down and play safely.
edge-t
Rock Star
Silver Level
Not much experience in SNG--I'm a cash game person. I'd say: "Ignore the graph, ROI, ITM, amount won... etc" when you're starting out and just focus on each individual hand you're playing. Make the best decision every hand--and you'll do fine--fold, bet or raise. Of course, with a proper BRM.
Check your results weekly, monthly instead of after every SNG you played in.
time spent with PT or HEM would be better served if you analyze your biggest losing hands--finding your leaks--how you can improve next time round.
Check your results weekly, monthly instead of after every SNG you played in.
time spent with PT or HEM would be better served if you analyze your biggest losing hands--finding your leaks--how you can improve next time round.
ItsMe
Rock Star
Silver Level
I've lost the edge of playing these now as I much prefer the MTT and cash game environment but these are my stats:
Played 75
ITM% 64
Buy-ins $5+ and $10+
I've got the individual breakdown somewhere. From memory, I seemed not to win that many but would score a lot of seconds and thirds by not risking it too much when 4 and 5 players left. As I say I've lost the patience to play these now. I've tried occassionally but they always disappoint.
Played 75
ITM% 64
Buy-ins $5+ and $10+
I've got the individual breakdown somewhere. From memory, I seemed not to win that many but would score a lot of seconds and thirds by not risking it too much when 4 and 5 players left. As I say I've lost the patience to play these now. I've tried occassionally but they always disappoint.
dmorris68
Legend
Loyaler
I'm curious: where was this at?
A 64% ITM rate even over a smallish sample of 75 would be pretty incredible, so I wanted to see just how well you've done with this sort of winrate. I've looked up your stats from some of the rooms and aliases you list in your CC profile, and they're nowhere near that. Barely any stats at all for the rooms I found you at, -100% ROI, and pretty much nothing at the $5-$10 stakes. Not calling you out, but those numbers sounded unusually high and with the lack of stats at the major rooms, I've got to admit I'm suspicious now. I would be happy to retract that and apologize if you pointed me to a reliable source that vouched for those numbers.
ItsMe
Rock Star
Silver Level
Admittedly this was awhile ago (2006 early 2007) and the stats have subsequently disappeared from sharkscope
. For the record (played, ITM%, profit) then Party (22, 63, $102), Titan (3, 100, $20), Absolute (3, 100, $50 - one was a $20 game), betfair as krrifles - where I started (40, 60, $204), FT (7,57, $7). I excluded double or nothing games on Stars as they're really not what the OP was on about. Basically, this is a historic set of results like I said in my original post I lost the touch (patience) for SNGs and switched to playing mainly private freerolls and cash games - these don't show up in the stats either - I read somewhere people tend to migrate to cash - suits me as I can get up when I'm getting bored or frustrated or winning etc.. Best cash result 2nd in a $11 mTT on Party - $950, I have winnings of about £1980 now. Not much for 3+ years but it's been achieved in a very low risk way. I have a few downloaded graphs from sharkscope and somewhere else - not sure where might be the old bluff site - showing results (but don't know how to post them on this forum - asks for a url!) - these are on another forum though it you're really intereted to see them just send me a pm. I quite like the fact that sharkscope has discarded the records, it means people are basing their judgment on me on incomplete information and paying for the privilege too!
ItsMe
Rock Star
Silver Level
Not quite what the OP wanted but something similar. For SNGs, ITM(1,2,3) percentage and meaning from an old site that I used to use:
>40% Pro
35 to 40 Very good
30 to 35 Slightly above average
25 to 30 Slightly below average
20 to 25 Below average
10 to 20 Way below average
<10 Fish
Not sure what site now but hope that it helps.
>40% Pro
35 to 40 Very good
30 to 35 Slightly above average
25 to 30 Slightly below average
20 to 25 Below average
10 to 20 Way below average
<10 Fish
Not sure what site now but hope that it helps.
dmorris68
Legend
Loyaler
Interesting. From what I've been reading lately, those standards seem quite lofty. I'm seeing that the pros average 15%-20%, but maybe that's MTTs and not SnGs?
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
These standards aren't 'lofty' at all for SNGs... anda yes.. the 15-20% is for MTTs (usually 15% for the top MTT winners on Fulltilt).
I'd say if anything the table of ITM %'s for SNG's is the opposite of lofty... ITM - 40% is a winning player... but anything below 30% and I'm pretty sure you're losing money ( -ROI ), and am guessing that 30-35% is maybe breaking-even... at best.
My overall ITM for 9-plyr. SNG's (since I first started out) is exactly 40.0% and yet my ROI is onlyl +6% (@ an overall avg. buyin of $5.09) <<< This is far from 'expert'.
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
Oh.. sorry.. I mean far from "Pro".
If you were running with these stats. in the $50+ avg. buyin, then perhaps that'd be pro (it's pretty difficult for anyone to run at above +5% in the higher buyins over an extended period of time.... most of the better larger buyin SNG players have an ROI closer to +2%.. competition is stiff at the upper levels of SNG play).
PS.. for any 'stat. hunters'... these stats. are not taken from Sharkscope, but instead from a site where # of players per table can be filtered to 6-plyr., 9-plyr, 18's, 45's, or all of the above combined.
Sidenote.... running at ITM +64% I don't think I'd ever get bored, lol. Solution... add more tables, lol.
Other sidenote re a previous member's comment... that ITM 30% would be making money.... I highly doubt this as I think it'd have to be higher than this to be breaking even.
If you were running with these stats. in the $50+ avg. buyin, then perhaps that'd be pro (it's pretty difficult for anyone to run at above +5% in the higher buyins over an extended period of time.... most of the better larger buyin SNG players have an ROI closer to +2%.. competition is stiff at the upper levels of SNG play).
PS.. for any 'stat. hunters'... these stats. are not taken from Sharkscope, but instead from a site where # of players per table can be filtered to 6-plyr., 9-plyr, 18's, 45's, or all of the above combined.
Sidenote.... running at ITM +64% I don't think I'd ever get bored, lol. Solution... add more tables, lol.
Other sidenote re a previous member's comment... that ITM 30% would be making money.... I highly doubt this as I think it'd have to be higher than this to be breaking even.
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
Oh.. one other comment for newer players tracking result stats. over a short period of time or a limited number of games. SNG's can be really streaky >> there'll be times when you're running so goooot that you'll wonder why you weren't always taking them down... and other times where 1 in 10 80/20's seem to hold and you're bubbling on AA, KK, & QQ to crap like A-rag even while shoving with what you figured was decent fold equity. SNG's can be a bitch!!
I've had a month where I had ROI +67%, thinking I'd got it down in a big way. Then the streak of Zero cashes in 10 games comes.... then 2 in the next 10 and so on, lol.
There was one absolutely fishy SNG on Fulltilt that I'd play for fun on occassion, partly because it was probably the most fish 9-plyr SNG I'd ever seen on Fulltilt >>>> the 9-plyr. MidnightMadness Satellite SNG (plus with the Mid.Mad. being an extreme donkament, I refused to pay the $11 to play in it,.. if I could play it for $3 it felt like I was playing it for 'free'). I've cashed for 9 of 10 in this game but tried them just recently again and I think I've gone without a cash for 10 in a row, lol.
Anyone who plays SNG's (even winning players) will experience a time when they get a reall bad run of it.... going 20games without a cash is not unheard of (I think '21' is my record, lol).
Advice... try not to focus on the results as much as on whether or not you feel you played the game optimally... from both an overall game strategy concept.. and from each hand by hand play.
GL with your results as for sure they are beatable... but be warned.. on the popular sites there is ALOT of competition out there these days.
I've had a month where I had ROI +67%, thinking I'd got it down in a big way. Then the streak of Zero cashes in 10 games comes.... then 2 in the next 10 and so on, lol.
There was one absolutely fishy SNG on Fulltilt that I'd play for fun on occassion, partly because it was probably the most fish 9-plyr SNG I'd ever seen on Fulltilt >>>> the 9-plyr. MidnightMadness Satellite SNG (plus with the Mid.Mad. being an extreme donkament, I refused to pay the $11 to play in it,.. if I could play it for $3 it felt like I was playing it for 'free'). I've cashed for 9 of 10 in this game but tried them just recently again and I think I've gone without a cash for 10 in a row, lol.
Anyone who plays SNG's (even winning players) will experience a time when they get a reall bad run of it.... going 20games without a cash is not unheard of (I think '21' is my record, lol).
Advice... try not to focus on the results as much as on whether or not you feel you played the game optimally... from both an overall game strategy concept.. and from each hand by hand play.
GL with your results as for sure they are beatable... but be warned.. on the popular sites there is ALOT of competition out there these days.