NoWuckingFurries
Legend
Silver Level
Yes please
B
baudib1
Legend
Silver Level
SnG grinders are doing exactly that: grinding. Their edge in SNGs vs. good players is ridiculously thin and such players rely on volume/rakeback to make money. Honestly there is very little action in true high BI SNGs, most players with the roll to play that high have found out that MTTs or cash are much much much more profitable.
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
Putting players on ranges gets easier over time.I wish I could motivate myself to use pokerstove like that for sessions afterwards.
All this equity and chip $ equity etc etc all just baffles me.
this ^ stuff is crucial for tournament play
I basically go for odds in multi-way pots and "feel" headsup in a pot or in general against someone.
So when you're faced with a decision, ie. you raise in LP & SB shoves, pot's givin' you 1.3 to1 for ~1/2 your stack.... aren't you at all curious as to what eq you'd need for the call to be +cEV? Or stuff like, eMP raises.. MP flats... you shove 16bb's in LP.. & MP makes the call (but it seems like kind of a loose call to you in your own opinion... aren't you at all curious to find out if their call was in fact too loose... or that it wasn't).
^ real basic examples... but just sayin'....
. I couldn't ever, or ever see any people where we're talking "pros" thinking of tournament equity and so forth.
.. really? well what do you think some of them are doing when they're sitting there pondering over whether to make the call or not? (although in many spots (obv) they'll know prior to making the raise (or re-raise) as they've likely guesstimated in advance (real shytty wording.. but I'm thinkin' you'll get what I'm sayin')
If they think they're ahead, they will call, regardless.
so they won't call if they're behind but are getting the right price to call?
If they think they can bust or play someone, rather than the cards, I'm sure they do this than think in pokerstove terms.
Very often stack sizes will determine the play.
I think it all confuses me to much and far to much to take in at times
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
Playin' a bunch of tourneys this morning/aft. but I'll try to post a couple of examples later on.(of how I'm typically using it for tournament situations)Yes please
S
Steve922
Rock Star
Silver Level
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
Been real busy & will be for next couple of days. Will try to post a few soon.
Roller
Legend
Platinum Level
C
Chemist
Legend
Silver Level
^this
so actually they are not doing a lot of math, more recalling answers.
Like darts players won't multiply 3x17, they know treble seventeen is 51.
they also know most combinations of three darts, like treble 19+15+double top is 'idk whatever' you can do the math, because they know all the combinations needed to make a finish from experience.
Bar workers also use less math because they know the price of common groups of drinks. 1 beer, 2 beers, 3 beers; 2 beers + 2 cokes etc. :beer:
So it should be with experienced poker players that they know the answer at a glance without doing any math.
They also know everyones chip count unless you mess with them by stacking your chips in irregular piles
L
LizzyJ
Legend
Silver Level
I know three people who have been playing -or- played professionally for 25+ years. ('Professionally' defined as their primary source of income). All three of them told me that math is a tool in their decision making, but not too put too much emphasis on it. Poker is a game of people not numbers. Being an engineer I wanted to prove to them that you can be a successful player by playing Poker by the numbers. Well, after one year, I proved them right and I was wrong. You might squeak by and become marginally successful, but if getting rich is your goal, playing strictly by the percentages won't get you there.
essambb
Rock Star
Silver Level
i really dont think that math help alot there is really situation where i ve been math favorait and have so many outs and hit nothing but air and some times you hit your draw it is no good so i have to depend alot on feeling and if it warth calling to chace the drawes
alaskabill
Legend
Silver Level
^this
so actually they are not doing a lot of math, more recalling answers.
Like darts players won't multiply 3x17, they know treble seventeen is 51.
they also know most combinations of three darts, like treble 19+15+double top is 'idk whatever' you can do the math, because they know all the combinations needed to make a finish from experience.
Bar workers also use less math because they know the price of common groups of drinks. 1 beer, 2 beers, 3 beers; 2 beers + 2 cokes etc. :beer:
So it should be with experienced poker players that they know the answer at a glance without doing any math.
They also know everyones chip count unless you mess with them by stacking your chips in irregular piles
I agree that experienced players aren't doing the calculations at the table often. However, their knowledge is based on having at one time done the math often and in depth so that they now know the answers automatically.
So in other words of course they use math. Everyone who argues that they are instead using "feel", "talent", "instinct" blah blah blah are missing the point that all of those things are built upon a base of mathematical knowledge of the game.
marvingubba
Rock Star
Silver Level
I have to agree with the consensus here.
Instinct and "gut" feelings are all based on experience and a well developed, nearly automatic, understanding of the math involved.