Annie Duke has a point?

[Stick66]

After talking about Celebrity Apprentice in this video, Annie talks about why she is still with Ultimate Bet at the 2:10 mark:

http://wickedchopspoker.blogs.com/m...-celebrity-apprentice-and-our-dinner-bet.html

Maybe she's right. Should a company be judged as a whole based on what one A-hole did? What about all the other good, honest people who work there? Thoughts?

 

[Steveg1976]

How did that work our for ENRON, only a hand full of people were shady there and look at the damage that was done.

I should add I am work and haven't watched the clip so I am just be the devils advocate here.

 

[Debi]

I think she has a very valid point though I say that knowing most will disagree with me.

 

[gn2056]

I am not so sure it was only one guy responsible there was a lot of questionable stuff going on there and absolute about a year and a half ago when I played at the big boy tables.

Anywho, did you see the celebrity apprentice opener, Annie was such a bitch I see her differently always pictured her as being nice away from the tables, not the case here though.

 

[Stick66]

I am not so sure it was only one guy responsible there was a lot of questionable stuff going on there and absolute about a year and a half ago when I played at the big boy tables.

Anywho, did you see the celebrity apprentice opener, Annie was such a bitch I see her differently always pictured her as being nice away from the tables, not the case here though.

Here's the TV show thread:

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/general-poker-13/annie-duke-celebrity-apprentice-145199/

Besides, why does taking control = being a bitch? All those other chicks were lagging except Joan & Melissa.

 

[gn2056]

Naw it wasnt the control thing it was just she wouldnt shut up and just kept thinking she was the only one with a clue. I like her dont get me wrong just found my impressions of her to be off.

 

[tpb221]

Maybe she's right. Should a company be judged as a whole based on what one A-hole did? What about all the other good, honest people who work there? Thoughts?

So does this mean that if a company is ripping me off I should still give them my money because some honest old lady works there? At what point do you stop giving a dishonest company money-2 bad employess, 3 or perhaps 5. Nobody said that everybody that works for UB/AP is dishonest, but the company you work for is judge as a whole.

 

[S93]

Sure she may have a point. maybe UB/AB are beeing judged to hard or what ever but just the fact they had a "security breach" discourages me from playing there even if im playing stakes way below where the breach took place or would even be worth playing if you where a super user.
Also the Phil Helmuth phantom pot(where PH won a 50K pot or something with the worse hand at showdown) that happened recently just makes me even more doubtfull of software.

 

[RichKo]

Think a few years back...a tire company (cant remember which one right now) that Ford was using was having faulty tires that were responsible for deadly accidents, so should everyone stop buying Ford...uuuh NO...you fix the problem and move on, so why just because there was one scandal should people not play there...I can see if maybe you were one who lost millions, or your family member died because of a shit tire, discontinuing using a product, but gimme a break. By the way Annie Duke Rules.

 

[overtop69]

The problem, in my opinion, is not that the scandals happened at ub or ap....but how they were handled by the company. They were not very forthcoming with details and really didn't do much to appease the situation. I do think that they have remedied the situation and are working on being a good poker citizen. But they did give a lesson for all poker sites and networks on "How NOT to deal with scandal"....again....just my opinion.

 

[profitsforlife]

i n my opinion anie duke is WAYYY over rated ,,sure she knows the game but for what always seems to come out of her mouth and all this recognition she seems to get she isnt that good of a plyer..its easy to judge ppl s playwhen u watch there hole cards from behind a screen but yet when i watch her play she isnt that good so shes all mouth and seems to be a bit to highly on herself...now jennifer harmon is 5 times the player she is and u barely hear her speak or critisizr ppl so anie should take a lesson from jen and learn to shut her big mouth and produce more results instead of blabbin off on what to do ...

 

[smd173]

Think a few years back...a tire company (cant remember which one right now) that Ford was using was having faulty tires that were responsible for deadly accidents, so should everyone stop buying Ford...uuuh NO...you fix the problem and move on, so why just because there was one scandal should people not play there...I can see if maybe you were one who lost millions, or your family member died because of a shit tire, discontinuing using a product, but gimme a break. By the way Annie Duke Rules.

The tires were Firestone which was owned by Bridgestone. Following the scandal, they removed the name Firestone from their advertising and went as Bridgestone and continue to sell tires. Meanwhile, following the UB/AP scandals, they renamed themselves Cereus.

 

[DINGO8MYBABY]

I read the autobiography of Annie Duke's sister Katherine Lederer (an overrated poet), and in the book she makes Annie Duke look like a bitch. Katherine Lederer obviously loves big brother Howard Lederer, but he's portrayed in the book as someone with addict behavior, especially toward gambling.

 

[JaBone30]

I've always thought highly of Annie on and off the table. I think she is right u cant judge an entire company on a few peoples bad actions.

 

[HalifaxLeafs]

The tires were Firestone which was owned by Bridgestone. Following the scandal, they removed the name Firestone from their advertising and went as Bridgestone and continue to sell tires. Meanwhile, following the UB/AP scandals, they renamed themselves Cereus.

...ARE YOU CEREUS?? (serious?? )i play on Ub & i have no worries..im a low level fish & we are protected..hehehe..they only try to scam the BIG $$ players..so as long as im a small fish im not worried ..Annie Duke RULES..

 

[Reducto]

Think a few years back...a tire company (cant remember which one right now) that Ford was using was having faulty tires that were responsible for deadly accidents, so should everyone stop buying Ford...uuuh NO...you fix the problem and move on,

If people had stopped buying Fords when they built cars that were prone to blowing up when rear-ended in the 70's (another known issue they never fixed) maybe they would have started putting more value on not killing people when designing cars. The tires were just a catalyst. The poorly designed suspension was the main problem.

Same goes for UB and the 50k mistake - they didn't care enough about security and quality. They hid the problem as best they could, spent their budget on endorsements instead of software quality, and another problem popped up. It will happen again.

 

[TRB1965]

I don't mean to be so harsh on Annie on this one, but she had a pre-existing relationship with UB and therefore knows more of the people than someone else might.

If she was just a normal Joe and had never deposited on UB before the scandal, I am certain she wouldn't go anywhere never them.

 

[SystEmsuX]

Companies have to be held accountable for screwing people over. Markets don't self-regulate; the "invisible hand" is practically nonexistent (unless you want to argue that the invisible hand has a way of biotch-slapping us). Annie defends her position well, but you can't let something slide because it's just a couple bad guys at the top. If I was associated with a dishonest company like UB, I'd get on my high horse and ride away.

Also the Phil Helmuth phantom pot(where PH won a 50K pot or something with the worse hand at showdown) that happened recently just makes me even more doubtfull of software.

Did I miss something? Link, please.

 

[S93]

Did I miss something? Link, please.

my memory was messing with me,it was a 5599$ pot not 50K.

Stage #XXXXXXX: Holdem (1 on 1) Normal $200/$400 - 2008-12-20 04:15:23 (ET)
Table: FIR AVE (real money) Seat #4 is the dealer
Seat 4 - PHILHELLMUTH ($4495 in chips)
Seat 6 - DOUBLEBALLER ($7494 in chips)
PHILHELLMUTH - Posts small blind $100
DOUBLEBALLER - Posts big blind $200
*** POCKET CARDS ***
PHILHELLMUTH - Raises $300 to $400
DOUBLEBALLER - Raises $400 to $600
PHILHELLMUTH - Raises $400 to $800
DOUBLEBALLER - Calls $200
*** FLOP *** [Js Kc Kh]
DOUBLEBALLER - Checks
PHILHELLMUTH - Bets $200
DOUBLEBALLER - Raises $400 to $400
PHILHELLMUTH - Calls $200
*** TURN *** [Js Kc Kh] 2♥
DOUBLEBALLER - Bets $400
PHILHELLMUTH - Raises $800 to $800
DOUBLEBALLER - Raises $800 to $1200
PHILHELLMUTH - Calls $400
*** RIVER *** [Js Kc Kh 2h] 9♣
DOUBLEBALLER - Bets $400
PHILHELLMUTH - Calls $400
*** SHOW DOWN ***
DOUBLEBALLER - Shows [Kd Qh] (Three of a kind, kings)
PHILHELLMUTH - Mucks
PHILHELLMUTH Collects $5599 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($5600) | Rake ($1)
Board [Js Kc Kh 2h 9c]
Seat 4: PHILHELLMUTH (dealer) (small blind) won Total ($5599) HI: ($5599) [Mucked] [2s 10s]
Seat 6: DOUBLEBALLER (big blind) HI:lost with Three of a kind, kings [Kd Qh - B:Kh,P:Kd,B:Kc,P:Qh,B:Js]

Next hand exact stack sizes


Seat 4 - PHILHELLMUTH ($7294 in chips)
Seat 6 - DOUBLEBALLER ($4694 in chips)

Ultimatebet´s parrent companys statment
http://online.casinocity.com/news/news.cfm?articleId=82937

story about it
http://www.casinocitytimes.com/news/article.cfm?contentID=176393

The chat after the hand:
DOUBLEBALLER: phil you must not like heads up limit, its too fast for
DOUBLEBALLER: you to chat!!
<< Result for Hand 1162170866 >>
PHILHELLMUTH wins ($300.00 chips).
PHILHELLMUTH: lol
<< Result for Hand XXXXXXXX >>
PHILHELLMUTH wins ($5599.00 chips).
DOUBLEBALLER: phi;i
DOUBLEBALLER: it keeps knocing me off
DOUBLEBALLER: saying i missed 3 blinds
DOUBLEBALLER: wtf?
<< Result for Hand 1162171379 >>
PHILHELLMUTH wins ($2799.00) with (One pair, aces).
<< Result for Hand 1162171700 >>
DOUBLEBALLER wins ($400.00 chips).
<< Result for Hand 1162171822 >>
PHILHELLMUTH wins ($799.00 chips).
DOUBLEBALLER: do you know what you are in for?
<< Result for Hand 1162172036 >>
DOUBLEBALLER wins ($3199.00) with (Flush, queen high).
DOUBLEBALLER: any idea what you are in for phil?
DOUBLEBALLER: it messed up my stack
<< Result for Hand 1162172222 >>
DOUBLEBALLER wins ($2799.00) with (Two Pair, tens and threes).
<< Result for Hand 1162172563 >>
PHILHELLMUTH wins ($799.00 chips).
PHILHELLMUTH: i think i bought 4k
PHILHELLMUTH: but not sure
DOUBLEBALLER: i won that had with KQ right?
<< Result for Hand 1162172687 >>
PHILHELLMUTH wins ($400.00 chips).
DOUBLEBALLER: K K J board?
PHILHELLMUTH: yes U did
DOUBLEBALLER: so im def up

PHILHELLMUTH: U wanna play or what?
DOUBLEBALLER: no
DOUBLEBALLER: 5600 pot
DOUBLEBALLER: they are gonna credit it to me
PHILHELLMUTH: I play U limit, right now
DOUBLEBALLER: how the **** can that happen phil??
DOUBLEBALLER: that is such a major error!!!!
PHILHELLMUTH: good thing U found it, no wonder we differed about who was w
PHILHELLMUTH: winning
DOUBLEBALLER: i am just in awe
PHILHELLMUTH: maybe U were booted just then'
DOUBLEBALLER: no
DOUBLEBALLER: they just credited me
DOUBLEBALLER: it is so weird
G0N3INW1ND: thats embaressing
DOUBLEBALLER: they show me showing the hand
PHILHELLMUTH: miracle U beat me
G0N3INW1ND: what kind of site is this?

Just google phil helmuth superuser if u whant more on the story

 

[sharpone]

hmm

Well considering i dont like Annie Duke and here style of poker her success asside i will try and answer your question without bias. In this case i do aggree with the statement, one shouldnt ruin it for the rest. But in some cases thats just the way it is. When you screw up you become the face of that company and they might just have to bear the brunt of it. Just the way the cookie crumbles at times.