All the Darvin Moon hate is kind of ridiculous **definite spoilers**

[Velutha]

There's some points in between that you're leaving out, and they're important ones. This is the most important one:

2.5 - He got those good hands often enough for his "strategy" to work.

So his "strategy" is basically to turn up and run like god. There's no Plan B so if he doesn't get his regular servings of aces and kings, he doesn't get anywhere.

This is true and I'm not arguing against that. BUT HE OPENLY ADMITTED THAT. He, more than anyone else, has made this point. I think it's ridiculous that we're assaulting him for having his hands hold up. He ran hot/lucky, as everyone who survives a humongous field does as some point.

This is the equivalent to me running straight through a mine field, missing all the mines, and making it safely through to the other side and then have some demolitions experts try to meticulously find their way through and have a few of them stumbling on a mine and blowing up along the way, while a couple of them make it safely...

When I get through, I say "wow, I got really lucky to survive that." At first the others announce that I'm better than I'm letting on and I must have some kind of training or a trick for spotting mines. Then I walk straight into an obvious trap with a giant sign pointing right at it that says "DON'T STEP HERE!" but I do anyway...and then they're pissed at me and tell me I had no right to make it as long as I did.

Nothing about me has changed, just the way you want to perceive me.

3.5 - He loses too much when he's got a worse hand.

It's OK to lose with the worst hand. You're right, we all do it and sometimes there's nothing you can do to avoid it. But Moon was losing too much in a lot of spots when he had the worst hand, particularly at the final table. When you've got leaks that big you really really need to run like god to make up for them. Luckily, he did run that good.

This is true. Amateur mistake from an amateur.

 

[smd173]

The only reason he was still in the tournament is because he got even LUCKIER than Moon earlier when he went all in with 2-2 and 4-4 bad beating J-J and Q-Q. Those were two of the biggest DONK moves of the tournament and no one is talking about how lucky he got. I mean Moon called with A-Q against A-K and everyone is saying how lucky he got - well guess what??? A-Q vs A-K is less of an under dog than ether 2-2 & 4-4 vs J-J or Q-Q. So Cada was LUCKIER THAN MOON.

Both times Cada had the 22 and 33, he shoved into the overs. There is a big difference between being aggressive and calling off with the lesser hand (which Moon did, multiple times).

 

[JLtrooper]

Okay, for those who think Moon is bad for poker because it shows how lucky a person needs to be to get that far at the ME, would you rather have had professional poker player Shulman win and turn around and throw the WSOP bracelet in the trash as he had promised to do?

http://wickedchopspoker.com/jeff-shulman-renounce-wsop-main-event-bracelet/

Would that have been better for poker?

Yes because at least he is honest. Unless you already have tens of millions of dollars, its all about the cash. Plus Shulman is a figurehead in the poker community because of CardPlayer.

 

[brianvoytek]

Bottom line everyone thinks they understand the game. Nobody here played in the Main Event, he did. He made it to the final table, nobody here did. Poker is gambling...just cause you play "by the book" doesnt mean everyone else should. Its called GAMBLING for a reason. People get lucky and suck out, it happens. Why put down this guy? He looks like a hard working person who deserves a little bit of fame and fortune. Whats the harm? All the internet "pros" who kill the low stakes always have an opinion and think their the next Durrr but forget the times we live in today and having a guy like that get 2nd is GOOD for the game and GOOD for his family.

 

[perry]

<<

1. I think everyone is taking shots at Moon, not because of his play, but the simple fact that him winning will be bad for poker. It will reinforce the idea that anyone with a buck can get lucky and win $8.5m, at least in the minds of non-poker supporters and Congress, and that the pros have no real credibility. I don't care what anyone says about it starting a whole new cycle of the Moneymaker effect, it won't. It didn't happen with Gold or Yang, and it won't happen with Moon. Plus the guy doesn't want to actively be a face in the poker world, he justs wants to basically hit-and-run and go back to Maryland to cut down more trees, and as a poker player I find that incredibly disrespectful. Lady Luck does you a favor that financially changes your life and you turn your back on her? **** Moon.>>


JLtrooper is right - Darvon Moon's win does nothing to help online poker because he keep getting monster cards and suckouts on the river -- pure luck -- not skill. Our arguement to Congress is "Poker is a game" of Skill. I beleive it is -- it just got harder to prove.

 

[NFLD_REBEL]

I think he really didn't care if he won I mean it would explain why he was playing badly. Hell he was already guaranteed to take home a lot of money by that point so he didn't care if he busted out because he had already done better than he ever anticipated.




Wow, with that mindset you will never become a good poker player.

Are you a great poker player????

 

[Crudelis]

Are you a great poker player????

It wasn't until recently that I was actually able to play online for real money, so obviously at the moment the answer is no. (I just turned 18 a few weeks ago.)

 

[RoyalFish]

JLtrooper is right - Darvon Moon's win does nothing to help online poker because he keep getting monster cards and suckouts on the river -- pure luck -- not skill. Our arguement to Congress is "Poker is a game" of Skill. I beleive it is -- it just got harder to prove.

No, it didn't. Chess is a game of skill. There's no randomness involved at all, but that doesn't mean the best player wins every time. Poker is a game of skill with a random component. Better play wins over the longer term. The shorter the term you look at, the greater the random component dominates. It means nothing that an arguably bad player made the final 2. If would mean something if the final table looked exactly like randomly choosing 9 entrants would look. It didn't.

That aside, the skill thing is a strawman. Governments are perfectly happy to run lotteries, which are purely skill, unless you're one of those absolute suckers in line in front of me carefully weighing which numbers to pick, as if it makes a difference. Far better that these people just play poker, where at least they have a chance to learn and get a +EV.

 

[Velutha]

That aside, the skill thing is a strawman. Governments are perfectly happy to run lotteries, which are purely skill, unless you're one of those absolute suckers in line in front of me carefully weighing which numbers to pick, as if it makes a difference. Far better that these people just play poker, where at least they have a chance to learn and get a +EV.

1) I believe you meant "luck" not "purely skill"....haha, however, if they are purely skill I am gonna start grinding up a lotto bankroll!
2) That little bit of ribbing aside, yes, of course poker can turn into a +EV for the player....But as far as the governments you're referring to, they only care about getting their cut....Lotteries are their moneymakers; online poker generates 0 dollars in most cases.
3) I disagree about your chess comparison. If someone is a master at chess, there is exactly a 0 percent chance that they will lose to a novice.

 

[smallteene]

I like the dude, seems like an honest upstanding man.

The same guys criticizing him are prolly the same losers on FT who cry and bitch when someone sucks out on them.

It's poker

I do not know why people hate. He never admits to being pro. It's sad to see such a humble man be hated. He is just a guy that works for a living and he ends up going on the best ride of his life....(he must have great karma)

I was really pushing for him to win, but he was getting very aggro when it came down to the final table. It's all good, it was a great tournament and had a great time watching him play. I only wish him good luck in everything.

 

[PoKeRFoRNiA]

I hate Cada. I like Moon.

I don't hate Moon. Moon is smart. He knows himself. He told everybody in the world that he was a luckiest man in the world and that almost everybody's better than him. He's humble man. He doesn't plan to become professional poker player. He knows himself.


Person I hate is Cada. I can't stand his ugly face and his behavior. At least he has enough money now to fix his deformed face. Cada thinks he's professional now. I really want to see him put down 8 million dollars and go heads-up against durrrr or play against Ivey in Bobbys Room. Cada will cry for mercy.

 

[GeoffLacey]

I don't hate Moon. Moon is smart. He knows himself. He told everybody in the world that he was a luckiest man in the world and that almost everybody's better than him. He's humble man. He doesn't plan to become professional poker player. He knows himself.


Person I hate is Cada. I can't stand his ugly face and his behavior. At least he has enough money now to fix his deformed face. Cada thinks he's professional now. I really want to see him put down 8 million dollars and go heads-up against durrrr or play against Ivey in Bobbys Room. Cada will cry for mercy.

Cada is/was a professional...

 

[Debi]

Person I hate is Cada. I can't stand his ugly face and his behavior. At least he has enough money now to fix his deformed face. Cada thinks he's professional now. I really want to see him put down 8 million dollars and go heads-up against durrrr or play against Ivey in Bobbys Room. Cada will cry for mercy.

What the hell? His face is not deformed - what a silly thing to say.

And what Geoff said lol.

 

[RoyalFish]

Seriously. Anyone who wins $8 mil and puts it all on the line playing one of the best isn't a pro, they'd be an idiot. BRM doesn't stop just because you win a lot of money.

 

[watchfanatic]

i dont think it's 'hate' to merely point out that he is a terrible player who just got incredibly lucky inordinately often at the wsop.

it was kinda like watching an online freeroll

 

[PoKeRFoRNiA]

What the hell? His face is not deformed - what a silly thing to say.

And what Geoff said lol.

I was getting tired of Cada making suckouts so many times. 33 v JJ, 22 v QQ. he has more luck than gold and yang. if cada is professional then jamie gold is legend and phil ivey is god.

Antoine Saout got his bracelet stolen. He deserved it more than anyone. I wanted saout or moon to take it.

saout has my respect after applying jackass strategy. raised with J2 to steal the blinds but flops two pairs and fooled Moon to double up. that's my style right thurrrrr. saout is unpredictable. then he bluffs ivey with pocket 7s. that's skills right there. He is professional. Not Cada.

 

[OzExorcist]

Cada is/was a professional...

^ this. He was staked in the Main Event (and a bunch of other events) by a couple of the biggest online players. And they're smart guys, they wouldn't be staking a losing player.

Those talking about $8 million ought to keep in mind that Cada only gets $4 million of his winnings - the other half goes to his backers.

 

[lektrikguy]

I like Moon. He's just an average guy like me who got big real fast. He had a hot streak, sure, but he used his big stack to bully some of the best in the world. Never played online in his life, and hell, he's a logger. Gotta love the workin man hittin it big.

 

[deucem]

WHERE CAN I WATCH THE HEADS UP PART ON THE WEB???

 

[coolnout]

WHERE CAN I WATCH THE HEADS UP PART ON THE WEB???

YouTube- 2009 ?WSOP Final Table Heads-Up Joe Cada vs Darvin Moon 1/3 brought to you in HQ

 

[deucem]

IS OK I found it!!

They looked like 2 players who where in the deepest water they had ever been in. At least one was from the online world, I can only dream.

 

[deucem]

Thanks coolnut is worth watching again!!

 

[smd173]

^ this. He was staked in the Main Event (and a bunch of other events) by a couple of the biggest online players. And they're smart guys, they wouldn't be staking a losing player.

Those talking about $8 million ought to keep in mind that Cada only gets $4 million of his winnings - the other half goes to his backers.

I know staking deals are common, but Cada said in many interviews that he's won over $500K in MTTs online. Maybe he had backers before those wins and had to use that to pay them back, but it just seems odd that he wouldn't have put up the $10K himself.

 

[OzExorcist]

I know staking deals are common, but Cada said in many interviews that he's won over $500K in MTTs online. Maybe he had backers before those wins and had to use that to pay them back, but it just seems odd that he wouldn't have put up the $10K himself.

By the same token though, why pony up the $10K yourself when someone else is willing to pay it for you? Especially in an event as crapshooty as the Main Event.

 

[smd173]

By the same token though, why pony up the $10K yourself when someone else is willing to pay it for you? Especially in an event as crapshooty as the Main Event.

True. But Cada strikes me as the type who believes in his abilities. And despite the ME being a crapshoot, I'm sure he still liked his chances.

Oh well, $4 Mil is still a nice haul. Just funny how effectively the second place guys keep getting more than 1st the past few years.