All the Darvin Moon hate is kind of ridiculous **definite spoilers**

[canucks921]

Anyone who plays as poorly and wins like Moon and Cada on a stage this large is a HUGE slap in the face to Poker and the contention that skill is a factor. Can you imagine all the Republican congressmen sitting at home watching this and saying "See!! There's no skill in poker." Not to mention the fact that the guy who supposedly had the most skill went out 7th (Ivey).

While I don't "hate" Moon or Cada by any means, I am very dissappointed in this year's outcome so far.

That was exactly what I was saying after watching the ESPN telecast. They always make it out to be a all in shove fest at the final table and lets see you wins a coin flip. It looks like a game of luck on TV. The whole time I was watching yesterday I was thinking this looks horrible for poker. ESPN needs to show more final table hands. The sense i got from listening to the bluff live radio was this actually was a good skilled event. Yes Cada got extremely lucky but there was also some moments at the final table where he played well, stole some blinds looked good. Of course ESPN can't show this!

 

[Velutha]

Your rooting for a guy who basically only played four hands the whole tourney AA,KK,AK,QQ ive never seen him play with anything less than AJ. and when he has he lost, hell most people could win a main event only playing those hands. The guy is no good for Poker PERIOD. Next Jerry Yang heck at least Jamie Gold plays more than the Main Event.

This is the most ridiculous comment in this thread. To sum up your points:

1) He plays solid hands
2) He wins with those hands
3) He loses when he plays worse hands
4) "Most People" could win the main event playing only those hands
5) He's bad for poker/He only plays the main event

Ok some rebuttal to these points:

1) He's doing it right!
2) Wow, he should write a book. Or maybe he abides by a good guide for beginners to play the top 10 hands!
3) Shame the Devil! He has lost with worse hands?! Me too oddly...
4) Wow, I didn't realize it was so easy.
5) He owes nothing to poker. He got into the main event and didn't accept any sponsorship dollars. Poker is a capitalistic game. He came, he saw, he conquered (for the most part), he returns to the woods. Good for him!

 

[fattychaddy]

Your rooting for a guy who basically only played four hands the whole tourney AA,KK,AK,QQ ive never seen him play with anything less than AJ. and when he has he lost, hell most people could win a main event only playing those hands. The guy is no good for Poker PERIOD. Next Jerry Yang heck at least Jamie Gold plays more than the Main Event.

well if u believe that comment i guess u will take it down next year lol

 

[kadafi]

is this guy any worse than doyle winning with 10/2 or 10/3? If that is the case then everyone needs to be tar and feathered for getting lucky.

Yes much worst than doyle because doyle was a well seasoned pro and possibly the greatest in the world when he won those titles.

But I have nothing against moon, good luck to him.

 

[NFLD_REBEL]

Congrats to Darvin Moon on finishing second at the World Series. He made mistakes at the final table, so what, he had a lot of chips and gambled a little more. Everybody gets lucky, even the top pros do also. He is a rich man now and accomplished more than any of us will.

 

[Gr3atness]

Darvin Moon is the man. So humble he wouldn't even get sponsored at the final table. Class act.

 

[AceZWylD]

is this guy any worse than doyle winning with 10/2 or 10/3? If that is the case then everyone needs to be tar and feathered for getting lucky.

THANK YOU. Doyle is praised for winning 2 wsop's with 10 2 off suit, but these guys are knocked down for their play? Poker is about situations, and taking advantage of them. Sometimes the cards fall in your favor. For them, this is one of those times. Don't hate the player, hate the game (but not enough to not play).

 

[OzExorcist]

i dont get how you can say moon is lucky. its takes way more than lady luck to make it this far, there is some skill involved in it.

Luck is the overriding factor here - sticking to premium starting hands and playing ABC poker is only a "skill" you get to exercise if you're lucky enough to get dealt a lot of premium starting hands.

Moon also demonstrated at the final table that he had several major skill deficiencies. They've been thoroughly documented so I'm not going to repeat them here.

All this is fairly meh though because chances are we're never going to see or hear from this guy ever again and we'll all stop caring in a week or so

 

[Crudelis]

Give the guy a break. He never claims to be a great player. He openly admits that he has been riding a hot streak. And he has no intentions of ever being the worlds best poker player. For some reason the peanut galleries are making him out to be a villainous person. He is a much more likable money contender than say Jamie Gould. At least Moon knows he isn't that great.

People have been attacking him for making a few bad plays at the final table so far and for getting lucky. For some reason no one takes into account all of the hands that the other 8 players have won to make it to the FT. You choose to ignore the hands they have come from behind and won and only point out Moons. For some reason you feel that Moon is the only one that has gotten lucky. To make it through 9 days of poker while building a stack against rising blinds, you need to get lucky. Don't ignore that.

Look at the two remaining players. Neither has played a great final table. For some reason most of you let the inexperienced internet kid off the hook and attack the more likable Moon. Both of them have made bad plays, both have gotten lucky, both are still in it. Give the guy a break.

I think he really didn't care if he won I mean it would explain why he was playing badly. Hell he was already guaranteed to take home a lot of money by that point so he didn't care if he busted out because he had already done better than he ever anticipated.

Congrats to Darvin Moon on finishing second at the World Series. He made mistakes at the final table, so what, he had a lot of chips and gambled a little more. Everybody gets lucky, even the top pros do also. He is a rich man now and accomplished more than any of us will.

Wow, with that mindset you will never become a good poker player.

 

[RoyalFish]

This is the most ridiculous comment in this thread. To sum up your points:

1) He plays solid hands
2) He wins with those hands
3) He loses when he plays worse hands
4) "Most People" could win the main event playing only those hands
5) He's bad for poker/He only plays the main event

Ok some rebuttal to these points:

Nice. Reminds me of a story about consultants.

A company is having a problem with an expensive piece of equipment. No matter what they do, it simply won't work properly. So they call in this outside consultant who comes in, looks the machine over for about half an hour, then drills one small hole. The machine works flawlessly thereafter and everybody's happy.

Until they get his bill for $10,000.

They are, of course, furious and resolve not to pay it if they can get out of it. $10,000 for one damned hole?!? They demand an itemized bill, which the consultant dutifully provides.

Drilling one hole: $5.
Knowing where to drill the hole: $9995.

Sure, it's easy to look at someone and say they just did the obvious thing. Sometimes it's obvious because we saw them do it. Sometimes (especially in poker) we *KNOW* the right play, but don't have enough discipline to wait for the right spot.

 

[smd173]

All this is fairly meh though because chances are we're never going to see or hear from this guy ever again and we'll all stop caring in a week or so

He said that over and over, but then ESPN's Inside Deal said he claims he'll play some WPT events and be back for next year's WSOP. So, I guess we'll see. I don't think anyone will miss him if he doesn't show up.

 

[PattyR]

This is the most ridiculous comment in this thread. To sum up your points:

1) He plays solid hands
2) He wins with those hands
3) He loses when he plays worse hands
4) "Most People" could win the main event playing only those hands
5) He's bad for poker/He only plays the main event

Ok some rebuttal to these points:

1) He's doing it right!
2) Wow, he should write a book. Or maybe he abides by a good guide for beginners to play the top 10 hands!
3) Shame the Devil! He has lost with worse hands?! Me too oddly...
4) Wow, I didn't realize it was so easy.
5) He owes nothing to poker. He got into the main event and didn't accept any sponsorship dollars. Poker is a capitalistic game. He came, he saw, he conquered (for the most part), he returns to the woods. Good for him!

^^ this exactly....agree 100%..thank u

 

[Panamajoe]

He knocked out Ivey. That's enough for me to hate him

Ivey is soooo over-rated. uh oh, don't hate me too

 

[OzExorcist]

This is the most ridiculous comment in this thread. To sum up your points:

1) He plays solid hands
2) He wins with those hands
3) He loses when he plays worse hands
4) "Most People" could win the main event playing only those hands
5) He's bad for poker/He only plays the main event

Ok some rebuttal to these points:

1) He's doing it right!
2) Wow, he should write a book. Or maybe he abides by a good guide for beginners to play the top 10 hands!
3) Shame the Devil! He has lost with worse hands?! Me too oddly...
4) Wow, I didn't realize it was so easy.
5) He owes nothing to poker. He got into the main event and didn't accept any sponsorship dollars. Poker is a capitalistic game. He came, he saw, he conquered (for the most part), he returns to the woods. Good for him!

There's some points in between that you're leaving out, and they're important ones. This is the most important one:

2.5 - He got those good hands often enough for his "strategy" to work.

The flaw in that "strategy", if you want to call it that, is it's 100% based on luck. In poker, if you can't win with the lesser hand at least some of the time you're going to wind up losing overall because those premium hands don't come about often enough.

So his "strategy" is basically to turn up and run like god. There's no Plan B so if he doesn't get his regular servings of aces and kings, he doesn't get anywhere.

And this is the other important one:

3.5 - He loses too much when he's got a worse hand.

It's OK to lose with the worst hand. You're right, we all do it and sometimes there's nothing you can do to avoid it. But Moon was losing too much in a lot of spots when he had the worst hand, particularly at the final table. When you've got leaks that big you really really need to run like god to make up for them. Luckily, he did run that good.

As for whether he's good for poker... meh. You're right, he put up $10K just like everyone else and he's entitled to do what he likes. But people (especially poker fans) are allowed to hold the fact that he's not going to be much of an ambassador for the game against him when they're choosing who to cheer for.

 

[Kasanova King]

i have 2 agree.look how lucky cada got thats enough 2 make u sick lol

I agree. I finally got to see the ESPN broadcast of the final table on Youtube (I listened to it live online a few days earlier). It is more than fair to say in the parts they showed on the ESPM broadcast, Darvin Moon outplayed Joe Cada. He got him to muck AQ vs AJ - that was huge, and he basically had control most of the time. His biggest mistake was going all in with the open ended straight draw - and I actually like that move - heck, if he hits one of his 8 outs, he is the 2009 champion, if Cada doesn't call he takes down a nice pot....nothing wrong with that move, IMO, just bad timing - and a good call by Cada.

When I was listening to the broadcast live I was actually rooting for Cada but after watching it, I ended up rooting for Moon. Cada came out to me as being very pompous. At one point he talked to Moon as if he was a little kid - very belittling. I couldn't stand the fact that he acted as if he would "automatically" win the event - even before he knocked out Saout, he goes over to his friends and says, "This is for the tournament", basically saying whoever would win that hand (between him and Saout) would win the tournament - and it wasn't a mistake, he said it 2 or 3 times...to me that's just being a cocky piece of cr@p.

The only reason he was still in the tournament is because he got even LUCKIER than Moon earlier when he went all in with 2-2 and 4-4 bad beating J-J and Q-Q. Those were two of the biggest DONK moves of the tournament and no one is talking about how lucky he got. I mean Moon called with A-Q against A-K and everyone is saying how lucky he got - well guess what??? A-Q vs A-K is less of an under dog than ether 2-2 & 4-4 vs J-J or Q-Q. So Cada was LUCKIER THAN MOON.

Also, to all you Phil Ivey bandwagoners, he lost because he played weak and scared - I mean he could have easily doubled up with J-J over 7-7, instead he lets himself get bluffed out and mucks the hand -WEAK PLAY. WHAT WA IVEY WAITING FOR TO PLAY??? A-A??? Pathetic performance by Ivey, IMO.

 

[ukaliks]

Darvin Moon is my hero. Im gonna play AQo more often now and hope i can river a A every time ^_____^
He's a average player. He won a sat in his casino to the main event and says that he played cards for ages, so he's not sh!t. But i do agree that he played pretty poor at the final table. Mayb someone told him to use his monster chip lead as a weapon and start shoving...

Phil "my main man" Ivey (god i hate norman chad. he's such a tosser) played poo aswell. He jus didnt seem to get into it and over played his KK and folded his JJ against some internet french qualifier. WHO had been re-raising alot on the final table. What a douche ivey is.

I bet i can win the main event. Jus gotta win a online sat 1st. Which is solid........ lol.

 

[Crummy]

They were both and kinda still are being hated on..... Here are my thoughts and I agree with OP.

*****Big thing to remember.... ESPN only shows us what they want us to see.....****** We don't know what hands Darvin played other than what ESPN showed us.

Darvin Moon -- Never once admitted to be a good player, was just enjoying his time... he said at one time on the show that he won his seat and said "Why not play, this is the event everybody wants to play in".... He made some good plays and some bad plays, but in the end ended up get 2nd.... So he must have done something right. Yes he did play a tight game and a some ABC poker, but we didnt' get to see 100% of the hands, ESPN only shows what they want you to see.

Joe Cada -- Everybody is calling this guy a luck box...... Well luck plays in poker, and he made the right moves at the right times and hit the right cards... Nothing else he could have done!

I think they both did a great job!

 

[rhulp1]

he is a f... multi miljonair now i think he doesnt give a shit about people who hate him.

 

[nc_royals]

Also, to all you Phil Ivey bandwagoners, he lost because he played weak and scared - I mean he could have easily doubled up with J-J over 7-7, instead he lets himself get bluffed out and mucks the hand -WEAK PLAY. WHAT WA IVEY WAITING FOR TO PLAY??? A-A??? Pathetic performance by Ivey, IMO.

Great Point Junior Member... Cause we all know Jacks never get cracked.

 

[Kasanova King]

Great Point Junior Member... Cause we all know Jacks never get cracked.

Uhmmm...sorry senior member with a whopping 170 posts - I guess post count around here is directly correlated to poker knowledge and skill level..wow, I need to get my post count up ASAP.

If you don't play pocket JJ in that situation, just give up the tournament because most likely what is going to happen (and it did) you're going to be forced to go all in with an inferior hand like AK off....and then get bad beaten by AQ.....lol....he got what he deserved - between laying down a flush and not making that call - he deserved to lose.

 

[AAChipMagnet]

Cada's aggression paid off more than once. Especially the 9s at the end. After Cada flopped over that 36 of clubs after his big bluff that got called by Moon earlier at the FT; I think Moon was gonna call just about anything the kid bet. Personally, I think Ivey's All-In with AK off was doomed anyway. Doesn't he play online on FTP? I don't think I've won with AK in about a month. Anyway, props Joe Cada for playing aggressively and taking it down.

 

[CAMurray]

Uhmmm...sorry senior member with a whopping 170 posts - I guess post count around here is directly correlated to poker knowledge and skill level..wow, I need to get my post count up ASAP.

If you don't play pocket JJ in that situation, just give up the tournament because most likely what is going to happen (and it did) you're going to be forced to go all in with an inferior hand like AK off....and then get bad beaten by AQ.....lol....he got what he deserved - between laying down a flush and not making that call - he deserved to lose.

I agree with you KK. I too thought it was like Phil was playing with borrowed money.

 

[Agile Beauce]

Okay, for those who think Moon is bad for poker because it shows how lucky a person needs to be to get that far at the ME, would you rather have had professional poker player Shulman win and turn around and throw the WSOP bracelet in the trash as he had promised to do?

http://wickedchopspoker.com/jeff-shulman-renounce-wsop-main-event-bracelet/

Would that have been better for poker?

 

[CAMurray]

Would have been cool to see guys digging in his trash bags every night. lol

 

[GeoffLacey]

Ivey is soooo over-rated. uh oh, don't hate me too

Unless your levelling (I spend too much time at 2p2, I don't trust any post anymore), this is arguably the worst post I have ever seen