What's the correct play here late in a SNG?

[Bentheman87]

You have A7 suited in the BB. Blinds are 60/120 and you're M is 7-9. It's a turbo Sng and you have an average sized stack but everyone else is also in the 5-10 M zone. The button raises to 3x bb do you fold, call, or shove?

 

[pigpen02]

How many are left? I would probably fold with only one high card and out of position.

 

[Bentheman87]

6 players left. This hand happened to me yesterday and I decided to shove all in. The main reasons were that shoving would (I thought) apply enough pressure against him to make him lay his hand down. I just had ace high so I really didn't want a call. If the blinds were bigger, like 100/200 and I made this same shove, he would most likely have to call with anything because of his pot odds. And the other main reason was the raise came from the button, if it came from maybe the CO or middle position I would have definetly folded. Well I shoved and he called with KJ offsuit and hit a king on the turn to knock me out. I really thought this shove would make him laydown hands like KJ but he decided to call. He was actually getting about 1.4:1 pot odds after my shove and he was a 1.7:1 underdog. So was shoving the right play IYO?

 

[royalburrito24]

Shove it dooooood.

 

[Steveg1976]

The only problem I have with your shove is that it followed a bet from UTG. The lead bet indicates a hand of some sort of strength which means they are much more likely to call your shove. Would you have been surpised that he led out a bet and then turned over with AA or KK. In HoH he advocates shoving but doing so when the pot is unopened giving you first in vigorash (spelling?). In this case I think you should have either called and then made your decision to shove after the flop or just fold. that is just my $.02 FWIW

 

[Bentheman87]

He wasn't UTG he was on the button. If the bet came from UTG I'd fold any ace except AK or AQ. And yeah I would be suprised if he had a big pair, blinds were high we were both medium stacks in the orange zone (m between 5 and 10) and it was folded to him on the button. I thought about just calling, maybe I should have. The flop came 10 9 6, I would have check folded the best hand and been at 1080. But a successful push would have left me at 1860.

 

[royalburrito24]

The good old stop n' go is a little overrated IMO. Just get it in pre flop with your medium ace. He is calling you with any ace (including A6 and below) so you could potentially have him dominated.

 

[WVHillbilly]

Fold. You're OOP with a weak hand. There will be better spots than this to get your chips in the middle.

 

[Steveg1976]

He wasn't UTG he was on the button. If the bet came from UTG I'd fold any ace except AK or AQ. And yeah I would be suprised if he had a big pair, blinds were high we were both medium stacks in the orange zone (m between 5 and 10) and it was folded to him on the button. I thought about just calling, maybe I should have. The flop came 10 9 6, I would have check folded the best hand and been at 1080. But a successful push would have left me at 1860.

the bottom line is that the button raised and then you shoved hoping he would fold. My point is that if you had been the button and shoved with him in the bb you had a much greater chance of making him fold than by doing so after he has already lead out with a bet.

 

[Bentheman87]

"the bottom line is that the button raised and then you shoved hoping he would fold. My point is that if you had been the button and shoved with him in the bb you had a much greater chance of making him fold than by doing so after he has already lead out with a bet."

I see what you're saying you're talking about first in vigorish right? I understand the concept of first in vigorish, but it's still no reason to fold reasonable hands. A7 suited is a very good hand in this spot in the top 10% (or is it top 20%? I think it's top 10%). The button has a wide raising range here, I'd say any Ace, any pair, any decent King, decent Qs, and medium suited connectors. And I'm beating five aces and losing to six aces. If you're saying to fold A7 suited here, how strong of a hand do I need to shove? Certainly AJ or Ace ten is strong enough to shove with here wouldn't you say?

 

[Steveg1976]

"the bottom line is that the button raised and then you shoved hoping he would fold. My point is that if you had been the button and shoved with him in the bb you had a much greater chance of making him fold than by doing so after he has already lead out with a bet."

I see what you're saying you're talking about first in vigorish right? I understand the concept of first in vigorish, but it's still no reason to fold reasonable hands. A7 suited is a very good hand in this spot in the top 10% (or is it top 20%? I think it's top 10%). The button has a wide raising range here, I'd say any Ace, any pair, any decent King, decent Qs, and medium suited connectors. And I'm beating five aces and losing to six aces. If you're saying to fold A7 suited here, how strong of a hand do I need to shove? Certainly AJ or Ace ten is strong enough to shove with here wouldn't you say?[/quote]

without reads it is hard to say but A7s is a tweener hand for me right in that range that were reads become vital. I use A8 as a cut off since 8 beats more A's than it loses to. I don't hate your shove and I might have even done it myself. In this case to get involved your only move was to shove and it just didn't work out in this case is all.

 

[Gobbs]

"the bottom line is that the button raised and then you shoved hoping he would fold. My point is that if you had been the button and shoved with him in the bb you had a much greater chance of making him fold than by doing so after he has already lead out with a bet."

I see what you're saying you're talking about first in vigorish right? I understand the concept of first in vigorish, but it's still no reason to fold reasonable hands. A7 suited is a very good hand in this spot in the top 10% (or is it top 20%? I think it's top 10%). The button has a wide raising range here, I'd say any Ace, any pair, any decent King, decent Qs, and medium suited connectors. And I'm beating five aces and losing to six aces. If you're saying to fold A7 suited here, how strong of a hand do I need to shove? Certainly AJ or Ace ten is strong enough to shove with here wouldn't you say?

I'd rather shove with T9s than A-rag in this situation (although I probably wouldn't shove with either). You were lucky that you got called with KJ. You could have easily been dominated or have had only one overcard.