Using Limit Hold em Tactics to No Limit Hold em

t1riel

t1riel

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I recently read article by Daniel Negreanu about using Limit hold em tactics in overall play. The article explains that effective weapons in limit hold em mya be effectivce in no limit as well if used correctly.

When betting on the flop, usually the player who raises before the flop to bet at least once more on the flop in limit hold em. You want to quickly take the pot hoping you opponents didn't catch anything on the flop. If you do this in no limit, you'll win the pot more often but more chips are at risk. In limit, if it doens't work, there isn't much loss, but in no limit the loss is greater. So, in no limit when you bet on the flop, try betting 1/3 or 1/2 of the pot instead of the whole pot. As pointed out in the article, "A bet of half the pot will generally have the same effect as a pot-sized bet, and it will cost you much less if the bluff doesn't work."

When it's a re-raise preflop, it usually results in a heads up play for the pot in limit. The re-raiser represents strength and has control of his-her hand. If the opponent misses the flop, then the pot can be taken usually (especially if you have good position) with another bet on the flop. In no limit, you can raise more than one bet so you can actually force your opponent to fold before the flop.

The risk is far greater in no limit so players are more careful with their play resulting usually giving up pots they can win. I think this article points out some intresting points but I don't agree entirely with Daniel's view on what USUALLY happens in limit hold em. I don't play much limit hold em so maybe someone can shed some light on this.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
I think that the 'limit' Daniel N is talking about is probably medium/high stakes.
Generally when pro players talk about theory, it really doesn't apply to the low limits we play, as the players play their own style there. (little to no skill involved in comparison to the med./high stakes.)
When you read the poker books on theory and strategy, most mention that against an experienced/tricky player (generally a higher stakes player), you will have more tools or weapons to use against him, because he actually analyzes the play. For example, he might note that you overbet your big hand last time, and when you bluff this time, overbet again. He might throw away the best hand thinking that you're doing the same thing.
With weak or inexperienced players, they are non-observant and will not notice these things, so basically you have fewer tools/weapons to use against him. You play straight forward poker vs. the weaker players and play tricky poker against the more experienced player.
That's also why a tight-aggressive style is best suited for low limits.
(sorry i ranted a little there :))

n post tim
 
Tammy

Tammy

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Some things to take into account here are that Daniel is probably most definitely referring to live games, be they cash-games or tournaments. As for what he says "usually" happens--you need to remember the levels he plays at and the caliber of player he is playing with; a LOT different than the people you'll find on an online low-limit table, to be sure.

I like the idea of trying to bet less (in NL) to steal the pot so that you don't have as much on the line. I remember seeing a little interview with Annie Duke, and she suggested experimenting with your table to see exactly what size bets will scare them off. Start with a low 2x BB bet, and work up until you find what works. Of course you would probably have to adjust accordingly depending on the players you're up against.
 
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

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When I continuation bet in NL, I do usually bet half the pot. If I'm the preflop raiser in limit, I will mostly bet the flop as well. There are a couple of things to be said about this though:

1. A continuation bet is best made heads-up. You're not going to move a whole table off of a broadway 3-flush when you're holding 7-7. And with many callers, the pot will be big with many people in it (especially if you raised PF) that a lot of people will have odds to draw.

2. You have to play reasonably tight for this to work. Your opponent must expect to be behind when you bet, and if you habitually raise preflop with T8o, then they simply won't respect your flop bets once they figure that out. If they know that your range includes pocket pairs, AK and AQ, then unless they hit the flop they can figure to be behind most of your holdings.

Having said that, and going a little bit offtopic, here's something I never do: I never slowplay a flop when I raised preflop. The way this ties in is because if I want people to fold when I bet missed flops, I have to actually bet the flops that hit me as well. Besides, if you raise preflop with AKs, and hit an AK7 flop, then no one will believe you when you check either way, and you'll just end up giving away free cards to hands like QT and stuff.
 
starfall

starfall

Visionary
Another factor to note for when it's worth trying a small continuation bet is not just the players but the timing.
If you're playing a tournament, then there's generally little point trying this when the blinds are small and the pot is not a significant proportion of your stack yet, as many players will still call because they like implied odds rather than the pot odds. Later in a tournament, particularly when it's approaching the bubble, you'll see some very tight play, and then you can often push players off pots because they don't want to risk much of their chip stack at that point. The big stack will generally be harder to push around, while the short-stacks at your table will be better targets.

If you're in a family pot the continuation bet probably isn't worthwhile unless it's only a semi-bluff, but it can work against 2 or 3 short-stacks who'd be committing a significant proportion of their chips (or money) better than against 1-2 players with deep stacks.
 
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