Topping off

[ComplexPlaya]

Well that's obvious Savage, but nevertheless I am done with auto-top off for now. I will still do it manually though, because it will better keep me off tilting I think...and allow me to take a break and think how did I lose x$ on this table?

I'm not advocating playing less than 100BI's though, I will still do that...and yes I will trade off the rare situations where I'll stack up before the chance to top off manually...

 

[Pascal-lf]

If you've got PT3 just click on the HUD and it'll tell you how much you are down on that table

 

[ComplexPlaya]

If you've got PT3 just click on the HUD and it'll tell you how much you are down on that table

I know, but it's more in-your-face that way...I guess I have too many tilt issues actually, and they overcome the benefit of auto top-off....

 

[Pascal-lf]

Self-discipline is the only thing stopping you maximising profits I guess then?

 

[tbdbitl]

I think everyone did a goood job of covering the strategy and the reasons for topping off. As far as bankroll management is concerned, nothing really changes. Just as you continue to top off you need to be aware of what your balance is on the site--that is if you hold to a site BRM practice*. Also, i you are losing your shirt and keep topping off, maybe it's time to look and see if maybe you need to find a new table.

*Some people consider their BR the entire amount of money available to play with their bankroll--all sites and money at home. Others use a site BRM principal. This is that only the money on the one poker site is their Bank Roll.

 

[Skaplun]

there was a point made about people with 20bb overvaluing two high cards... this might be a leak for some people so I feel its important to cover this, maybe it deserves a different thread or maybe it doesn't but when you have such a shortstacker the ideal play is to dominate your opponents range when shoving and shoving is always right.
Don't try to pick these guys off and unless you have very good cards don't ever try to shove on them because "its only 2$ (if you are playing 10nl for example.)"
There's no such thing as only and you are leaking money by trying to steal from some1 whose whole game plan is to force you into calling his shove with odds on your end and his dominating range on his.
Its a difficult topic to cover as I am not a native speaker and can't really explain it clearly but I feel that this should be discussed because this is a very dangerous player type that can make you leak tremendous amounts of bbs (this isn't relevant for 2,5, and generally 10nl.. starts manifesting in 25nl and certain in 50nl and above.)

 

[blueskies]

I think the number of heaters/coolers over time will come to about even so topping off in these situations just means that you'll lose more as well as lose more. So theoretically the situations you mentioned shouldn't be the difference makers. (Unless you are willing to fold the second nut flush in the AQ/KJ hand you mentioned.)

It does come into play when you are up against a horrible player who does not fold, then you can extract more, assuming he's at least 100BI too.

If you are a winning player topping off is good strategy because it increases how much you can win.

Let's say you lose $1.50 in a $10NL ($.05/$.10) game.
A few hands later you get all in pre-flop with A/A vs K/K and you double up.
If you topped off you win a $19.15 pot.
If you didn't top off you win a $16.30 pot.

The very next hand your A/Q of clubs goes up against the big stack's K/J clubs on a 8/7/6 all-clubs flop. You double up!

If you topped off you win a $36.52 pot
If you didn't top off you win a $31.11 pot.

By not topping off that $1.50 early on, you're cost yourself $5.41 in winnings. That's more than half a buy-in!

Now to be fair, sometimes topping off means you will lose more when you get cold-decked or sucked out on. But if you are winning player having more chips means that you will win more money on average.

 

[Deco]

I use the "Auto-Top" option so even if I fold the SB it will topoff to full stack.


The reasoning behind this is that if I feel I have an edge over the villain or table I want to have as many chips in front of me as possible for a double up.

If the difference between topping off and not topping off ruins your BRM, you are cutting it too close anyway.

Ditto

 

[Pascal-lf]

I think the number of heaters/coolers over time will come to about even so topping off in these situations just means that you'll lose more as well as lose more. So theoretically the situations you mentioned shouldn't be the difference makers. (Unless you are willing to fold the second nut flush in the AQ/KJ hand you mentioned.)

It does come into play when you are up against a horrible player who does not fold, then you can extract more, assuming he's at least 100BI too.

being deeper exaggerates leaks - people play way worse in bigger pots

 

[tusabes]

What you're really doing is making sure your BR doesn't increase too much. How is having a low stack 'neutralizing' anything?

When you call their bluffs and have the best hand you're losing $$$ alot by not having a big enough stack to pay their bluffs. Anyone that's not a complete maniac will tag you as a calling station when you call once with mid-pair, low pair and will only value bet you, then you will lose because you're calling too often.

Calling with weak hands is the worst thing you can do against bluffs, either raise (re-bluff) or fold.

I'm guessing you don't know how to get value for your good/great hands either, if you did you wouldn't appreciate a low stack at all...

I agree with most here.

There are some players pros even that play short stacks exceptionally well. In a lot of ways the short stack is easier to play because you have less decisions to make because you're playing more "big pots" compared to your stack sizes.

Playing a large stack well is much more complex. Yes, you have to extract and value bet very well. The large stack player has to be good to great at managing risk vs. reward on every street and have a plan to control the pot size accordingly. That can be difficult at any level.

My advice is play what ever you're more comfortable with. If you have a large skill level advantage vs. most of the table I would recommend a large stack. If you're adjusting to a new level or you're a break even player, playing a shorter stack may simplify things so to master preflop, postflop play, and gaining an understanding of commitment.