Figaroo2
Legend
Bronze Level
I recently wrote up a CV and in the hobbies section I wrote poker as one of my interests. When I had it quality assured by two different persons both of whom know nothing about poker both told me to remove it. "They will think you're a gambler" they both chimed. That is the perception of people outside the game.
I've been through University and it took me two years to get a decent job after leaving. I'd wish I'd had poker as an alternative at that time as opposed to a whole bunch of meaningless temp jobs.
The problem with taking a gap year during your studies is you forget half of what you've learned especially if it's technical. You also risk losing the motivation to finish off what you've started especially if you do make a bit of money playing poker. It's unlikely you will want to go back. Then you will truly have wasted all that previous time studying.
Imo The right time for the gap year is straight after school before higher education starts. This gives you a break from exams and let's you refresh prior to studying again. I know that doesn't help you now but I think you should only take a gap mid course if you're at risk of burning out and not completing your degree.
The other best time to gap is after you finish your degree before you get on the treadmill of work. I've lots of friends and work colleague's who travelled widely after Uni and they all sing to the rooftops that it was the best time of their lives. Go trot off to Thailand travel and play poker at the same time. Employers don't usually ask what you did while you travelled...too many degen stories....
I've been through University and it took me two years to get a decent job after leaving. I'd wish I'd had poker as an alternative at that time as opposed to a whole bunch of meaningless temp jobs.
The problem with taking a gap year during your studies is you forget half of what you've learned especially if it's technical. You also risk losing the motivation to finish off what you've started especially if you do make a bit of money playing poker. It's unlikely you will want to go back. Then you will truly have wasted all that previous time studying.
Imo The right time for the gap year is straight after school before higher education starts. This gives you a break from exams and let's you refresh prior to studying again. I know that doesn't help you now but I think you should only take a gap mid course if you're at risk of burning out and not completing your degree.
The other best time to gap is after you finish your degree before you get on the treadmill of work. I've lots of friends and work colleague's who travelled widely after Uni and they all sing to the rooftops that it was the best time of their lives. Go trot off to Thailand travel and play poker at the same time. Employers don't usually ask what you did while you travelled...too many degen stories....
6
6bet me
Visionary
Silver Level
If things go badly after 6 months, I can always return to uni in second semester. I don't need to defer for the entire year. If things go well after one year, I'll reevaluate my life, but most likely I'll continue with uni and become a semi-pro that plays poker maybe 3 nights a week and focuses on uni the rest of the time.
I'm not going to write about poker on my resume because I feel that the general public is ignorant about a lot of these things. Take this Australian TV show called "Insight" for example: they asked a bunch of young adults about how gambling has affected their life and a few students from my university (one of whom is a successful MTT player) were defending poker, yet others were still looking at them like they were the same as a roulette or baccarat player on a winning streak: Insight Young Gamblers
My reason for taking a year off uni is to save up money and sort my finances out, as well as to work extra shifts, take on extra responsibilities and maybe even attempt to seek out a promotion to manager. Poker is just a hobby of mine, like chess or video games, for all they need to know. I'm not saying that all employers are like this. I'd like to think that employers in the actuarial industry would be less ignorant than the general public about these sorts of matters, due to their strong backgrounds in maths and statistics, but it's still a risk that I wouldn't take.
I'm not trying to lay the burden of consequence on anyone else. I know that I'm responsible for my own actions. I'm not asking people to make this decision for me, but I want to seek out advice from other poker players who may have been in similar positions. Ideally, I'd get advice from someone who is currently a full-time online grinder, but so far, no one who fits that description has volunteered to help me out.
I'm not going to write about poker on my resume because I feel that the general public is ignorant about a lot of these things. Take this Australian TV show called "Insight" for example: they asked a bunch of young adults about how gambling has affected their life and a few students from my university (one of whom is a successful MTT player) were defending poker, yet others were still looking at them like they were the same as a roulette or baccarat player on a winning streak: Insight Young Gamblers
My reason for taking a year off uni is to save up money and sort my finances out, as well as to work extra shifts, take on extra responsibilities and maybe even attempt to seek out a promotion to manager. Poker is just a hobby of mine, like chess or video games, for all they need to know. I'm not saying that all employers are like this. I'd like to think that employers in the actuarial industry would be less ignorant than the general public about these sorts of matters, due to their strong backgrounds in maths and statistics, but it's still a risk that I wouldn't take.
I'm not trying to lay the burden of consequence on anyone else. I know that I'm responsible for my own actions. I'm not asking people to make this decision for me, but I want to seek out advice from other poker players who may have been in similar positions. Ideally, I'd get advice from someone who is currently a full-time online grinder, but so far, no one who fits that description has volunteered to help me out.
L
lukeellul92
Rock Star
Silver Level
Gap years are common enough for people who use it as a chance to travel etc.
Dude just do it! End of the day, would you rather look back on life and go "man im glad I didn't do what I wanted to do"?
No, you wouldn't... Should be all the motivation you need. It's only 1 year.
Dude just do it! End of the day, would you rather look back on life and go "man im glad I didn't do what I wanted to do"?
No, you wouldn't... Should be all the motivation you need. It's only 1 year.
TimovieMan
Legend
Silver Level
Actually, they'll inquire after that as well - why did it take you a year too much to get your degree? Just tell them the truth: you took a year off to try professional poker. Doing that in a "safe" spot - after you get your degree - is going to come over a LOT better than having to admit you took a year off your studies...
The difference is that poker could seize to exist. We've already had the UIGEA and Black Friday.
Also, good luck getting a decent job without a degree.
The degree should be the main backup plan. If you want to minimize risks, then getting that degree first while building up the roll and getting a clearer picture of what to expect from poker still seems like the way to go. But it doesn't sound like you want to hear that. It's like you're looking for a "do it" from us.
or3o1990
Legend
Silver Level
I agree with all of the others, stay in school. As with all things it's easier to be objective if you have goals. So figure out your long term goals and short term goals that are steps in achieving the long term ones and start putting in the work to get where it is you want to be.. I'm sure if you really think about things you will realize that taking a year off from school isn't going to accomplish much in the long term. But you've got to do what you've got to do I suppose.
Why exactly do you want to take time off from school besides to play poker?
Why exactly do you want to take time off from school besides to play poker?
dj11
Legend
Silver Level
+1, well put.
This is what you should expect. During the age of you life where Uni is available, you are continually bombarded with 'possibilities' for your future. Also during those years, 'necessities' change. Getting thru Uni (we just call it college) will be, in your future, the most important thing that will ever go on your resume. Doesn't really even need to be a valuable major, the process of getting that BA is what is important, not so much what the BA (or BS) covers.
Keep it recreational. Doesn't mean you won't take the game serious, but will probably mean you have more fun.
M
Marginal
Junior Member
Silver Level
My 2 cents.
Taking a year off to play poker is a mistake only because playing poker as a living is a dumb **** idea. Honestly you can manage both study and poker. There is way more downside to being a poker player than you can imagine. Take it from me I've seen enough shit to say it's not worth it.
Finish school, play on the side, get a job, play on the side.
Taking a year off to play poker is a mistake only because playing poker as a living is a dumb **** idea. Honestly you can manage both study and poker. There is way more downside to being a poker player than you can imagine. Take it from me I've seen enough shit to say it's not worth it.
Finish school, play on the side, get a job, play on the side.
Mr Sandbag
Legend
Silver Level
Yeah Marg. What are you thinking? Keep it positive and give real advice like this:
M
Marginal
Junior Member
Silver Level
If I should expand, from my experience you really only have 5 years max peak playing years. People don't realise this, the 1 year could go great and it leads to 2-3 years and then before you know it's your living and only life you know. At some point that apex hits and it's all downhill from there and you wouldn't notice. It has more potential to ruin your life than do good.
Just take a look year on year who are the big dogs and kings of the hill. It is ever changing
Just take a look year on year who are the big dogs and kings of the hill. It is ever changing
Mr Sandbag
Legend
Silver Level
This is interesting. I've never actually heard this before. I'm definitely not disagreeing with this, but doesn't this apply to basically everything? Though I suppose even if it does, "normal" jobs are different in that even after your peak your salary (usually) won't decrease and it can/will actually increase.
nitulbhatia
Legend
Bronze Level
Sorry to demoralise you but i think you should stay in school and get a full time job and play poker as a hobby on the side. Having poker as your main source of income is not an easy path, it may not be the right path either for most.
M
Marginal
Junior Member
Silver Level
Yea the game and the principles of good evolve all the time. So if you think of how say 10 years ago you had bigger bet sizing in tournaments and now it's effectively moved to a more aggressive and small ball type game. There comes a point where you stop evolving. The perfect example is HUNL how the King of the hill use to be people like durrrr who would be a loser now.
The thing is as you mentioned, in a normal job our salary remains the same, in poker you only realise you've been past is when you start losing and go busto.
I really started thinking about it when i use to play in London in 2013 and took a break when I moved back home. The regs now are completely different people for various reason but a lot cause of bustoville. The game evolves with time, you can't always keep up.
B
Biznardian
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Again, I can not tell you what decision to make. But I see a lot of "trust me" and "I know" but that are their personal experiences and says nothing about some one else. You can share your experience but it isn't a sure outcome.
If you really want something it is always possible, no matter what other people say or have experienced.
Again, you have to make your own decision based on what you really want and how you feel about that. All those pro's and con's aren't helpful in my opinion.
And I should not worry about "a gap"in your resume. I would hire you directly because you are one of the few who just chased their dream and wasn't looking for false security in following the masses by getting "education" and work for somebody else's dream. And in my experience those are the problem solvers who see a challenge instead of a problem. They don't start new things things by looking what things could go wrong like most and never chase their dream because of all the lousy excuses they can come up with why not them or......
But that is how I look at it and more power to those who do what they really want and educate themselves by evolving while chasing their dreams and be happy doing so.
If you really want something it is always possible, no matter what other people say or have experienced.
Again, you have to make your own decision based on what you really want and how you feel about that. All those pro's and con's aren't helpful in my opinion.
And I should not worry about "a gap"in your resume. I would hire you directly because you are one of the few who just chased their dream and wasn't looking for false security in following the masses by getting "education" and work for somebody else's dream. And in my experience those are the problem solvers who see a challenge instead of a problem. They don't start new things things by looking what things could go wrong like most and never chase their dream because of all the lousy excuses they can come up with why not them or......
But that is how I look at it and more power to those who do what they really want and educate themselves by evolving while chasing their dreams and be happy doing so.
B
Biznardian
Enthusiast
Silver Level
It is all about the mindset and if you see yourself as a losing player you can never win. If your mind is not set to the possibility of winning you should not even consider to play any more.
6
6bet me
Visionary
Silver Level
I put a lot of thought into this and the compromise I came to was this: I'm going to continue going to uni, but I'll only study 3 subjects per semester, rather than the usual 4. That way, I'll still be classified as a full-time student, but I'll only need to spend roughly 20 hours per week studying and attending classes, which will leave me 20 hours per week to work at my job and about 20-30 hours per week to spend playing and studying poker.
Live $1/$3 has been going very well for me so far. I'm over $2k up this past month. online poker has been going very badly though. I've been on a massive downswing at 5NL and 10NL, plus lost a bit at SnG's and MTT's, which puts my online bankroll about $250 down for the month. Unfortunately, I still don't have a proper bankroll to grind live poker, so every casino run I do is a bit of a gamble. But I'll probably still alternate between live $1/$3 and online 6-max zoom on pokerstars.
My goal for the year is no longer to beat 100NL 6-max zoom on PokerStars (that would've been my goal if I took a year off uni). Instead, my goals for the year are to beat 25NL 6-max zoom on PokerStars, and to make at least $5k profit at the casino for the year (almost half way there to achieving the latter goal). Perhaps it will be my 2017 goal to beat 100NL 6-max zoom on PokerStars. We'll see when the time comes.
Live $1/$3 has been going very well for me so far. I'm over $2k up this past month. online poker has been going very badly though. I've been on a massive downswing at 5NL and 10NL, plus lost a bit at SnG's and MTT's, which puts my online bankroll about $250 down for the month. Unfortunately, I still don't have a proper bankroll to grind live poker, so every casino run I do is a bit of a gamble. But I'll probably still alternate between live $1/$3 and online 6-max zoom on pokerstars.
My goal for the year is no longer to beat 100NL 6-max zoom on PokerStars (that would've been my goal if I took a year off uni). Instead, my goals for the year are to beat 25NL 6-max zoom on PokerStars, and to make at least $5k profit at the casino for the year (almost half way there to achieving the latter goal). Perhaps it will be my 2017 goal to beat 100NL 6-max zoom on PokerStars. We'll see when the time comes.
dj11
Legend
Silver Level
That seems almost reasonable Matt. I say almost because during our Uni years the World of Opportunities explodes on us. If you are human, you really don't have a great notion of what you wanna be when you grow up.
My example is that I wandered thru many years of Uni, without a clear goal, or notion of where it was going. Then, I found a book on the ground. Really, middle of an busy intersection. Mid 70's the computer world was just beginning an explosive growth, and the book was about digital logic (Boolean Algebra). I breezed thru that whole book in a long afternoon, and felt I understood everything in it.
I had no prior experience in anything digital, other than the Neighbor who built electronic learning toys for his kids. They rejected those toys, but I was fascinated.
I found out where the info in that book was relevant in the world and that led to my Career in Computers.
Point is that something small, that you might blunder on and assign little importance, might ignite something that leads to something you never expected.
My example is that I wandered thru many years of Uni, without a clear goal, or notion of where it was going. Then, I found a book on the ground. Really, middle of an busy intersection. Mid 70's the computer world was just beginning an explosive growth, and the book was about digital logic (Boolean Algebra). I breezed thru that whole book in a long afternoon, and felt I understood everything in it.
I had no prior experience in anything digital, other than the Neighbor who built electronic learning toys for his kids. They rejected those toys, but I was fascinated.
I found out where the info in that book was relevant in the world and that led to my Career in Computers.
Point is that something small, that you might blunder on and assign little importance, might ignite something that leads to something you never expected.
eberetta1
Legend
Loyaler
I know people who work a forty hour work week and still find the time to get a lot of hours of poker in. Poker is going nowhere. It will still be around after you complete your studies.
Stay in school, you can always get 70 hour weeks of poker in between semesters.
Few playing poker can make as much as an actuarial gets paid. You can always have a second career as a poker hot shot after you throw in 20 years as an actuary.
My .02 cents.
Stay in school, you can always get 70 hour weeks of poker in between semesters.
Few playing poker can make as much as an actuarial gets paid. You can always have a second career as a poker hot shot after you throw in 20 years as an actuary.
My .02 cents.
6
6bet me
Visionary
Silver Level
This is my main concern though. I don't think that I'll be able to learn and improve at a game like poker as easy in 20 years time as I will be able to now whilst I'm still young. Plus the games will only get tougher and tougher over time. People say that the golden days were 10 years ago, but the games nowadays are still beatable. Will they still be beatable in a further 10-20 years time?
And will I still be bold enough to quit my day job to play poker professionally if I'm a middle-aged man with a wife, kids and mortgage? Or would that be incredibly irresponsible of me? It seems apparent to me that if there's ever a point in my life to seize an opportunity like this, it's whilst I'm in the 18-25 age range. The older I get, the more reasons I'll have not to go pro, so it's now or never.
Although the things that Marginal has been saying are troubling. It is sad to see so many strong poker players go bust and fall behind the competition. I guess that happens to most athletes though and poker is essentially a sport. No athlete stays on top forever.
I've been thinking about this a lot and I'm still not sure if I did make the correct decision, but I am hoping to essentially become a full-time professional poker player (playing 40+ hours per week) whilst also being a full-time uni student (studying 3 subjects per semester). One of the things holding me back from this goal at the moment is the fact that I currently spend about 20 hours per week at my fast food job, which is good for the short-term (consistent income, helps pay the bills), but doesn't have much going for it in the long-term, so I'd like to slowly substitute that job with poker. I'm not in a hurry though: I don't want to quit my job and then go on a downswing and suddenly struggle to afford food, rent and bills. So I'll keep my fast food job until I have a decent amount of money saved up (at least $5k in my savings, maybe $10k to be on the safe side) as well as more long-term poker success. Hopefully in 1-2 years time, I'll be living the life of both a full-time poker player and full-time uni student. We'll see how it goes.
IronHaji1989
Rock Star
Silver Level
Playing chess doesn't give you an edge to play cards lol.
I think you should just do a balance of both. Play some cards and stay in school....network meet new contacts etc. Having a fall back is so crucial based on your mindset.
In the end you decide. Good luck.
I think you should just do a balance of both. Play some cards and stay in school....network meet new contacts etc. Having a fall back is so crucial based on your mindset.
In the end you decide. Good luck.
6
6bet me
Visionary
Silver Level
Yes it does. Chess is a game of strategy that involves thinking logically to come up with the most optimum move. Poker is also a game of strategy that involves thinking logically to come up with the most optimum move. They're both very similar in those regards.
There is a strong correlation between logical thinkers (mathematicians, statisticians, engineers, computer scientists, chess players, lawyers, etc.) and professional poker players. Look at how many professional poker players have a strong background in something maths or logic related. The winner of the wsop Main Event last year had a Master's Degree in mathematics.
Having a background in both chess and maths allows me to grasp poker concepts a lot quicker than others. Things like pot odds, equity, blockers and combos are very intuitive to me. And general strategic thought like considering things from my opponent's point of view and coming up with a counter-strategy definitely helps too.
I've only been playing poker for 16 months and I've already gone from a complete fish that doesn't understand the rules of poker, to a decent TAG reg that can beat 10NL on PokerStars and $1/$3 live at my casino. I don't think that the average poker player improves this quickly. I know plenty of people who have been playing for 5+ years who are worse than me. And whilst I still have a long way to go before I become a true professional, I feel that I do have a lot of potential to succeed at this game if I truly commit myself.