ring games: what is your general reraising range when in position?

Tygran

Tygran

Cardschat Elite
Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Total posts
1,757
Topic says it all and maybe this is trivial but the thing that is prompting this post is that I keep getting in trouble with specifically AK when I'm either in the cut off or on the button. I'm doing pretty well at ring games so far but I still have holes and I'm still adjusting a bit to the difference from tournament play.

So I'm going to leave this general but what is the best line to take with hands like AK, AQ, TT, JJ, etc... when you are in one of these seats? What are the variables to consider (do you reraise certain people, but not others? etc)? I'm specifically talking about situations where there is one raiser or a raiser and a caller in front of you.

I'm talking about full ring games here.

I'll just leave it at that and see where this goes.
 
zachvac

zachvac

Legend
Joined
Sep 14, 2007
Total posts
7,832
With AK I usually just flat call a raise PF. If there are a lot of people likely to call the raise I re-raise, but I want to isolate. Then if I miss the A or K I'll either throw out a cbet or check/fold depending on how the opponent is. TT or JJ I feel you have to raise here, just to see where you are. If you get raised you have to believe you are behind (unless your opponent values AK way too highly). A call and I put them on the similar range you have, but I'd try to keep the pot small at this point (unless of course you set, in which case you do your best to get all your chips in the pot, along with your opponents of course).

But of course it all depends on their stats. If someone is raising with 2% of hands and raises UTG, you can almost safely lay down JJ. I wouldn't here (unless I had like 1000+ hands, and again there's the fact that many people value AK very very highly), but if my re-raise was called I would pretty much be in check/fold mode.
If on the other hand your opponent is raising 40% of hands, doesn't think about position, then yes I come over the top with a semi-premium hand. It's all situational and depends on your opponents and how they play.
 
Munchrs

Munchrs

Legend
Joined
May 25, 2007
Total posts
1,935
it depends on my opponents raising range. If he has a wide raising range then you can have a wider re-raising range than if he has a ver small raisng range.

This in general is opponent dependent. But against unkwnown If i have position and he makes standard raise im reraisn AK,AA,KK,QQ,JJ.

Althoug i haved shove pf with AJ against a particular opponent when he raised pf i re-raised he 3 bet i shoved as i had seen him shove any A and any 2 high cards.

Basically it depends on your opponent, and your reads/info on them such as pfr% and VPIP. :D
 
tenbob

tenbob

Legend
Joined
May 16, 2005
Total posts
11,221
Awards
1
Wow, great minds think alike, i was about to post this just here, this has the potential to turn into a great thread, i have work in the morning but ill get some thoughts in here in a day or two.
 
Munchrs

Munchrs

Legend
Joined
May 25, 2007
Total posts
1,935
But of course it all depends on their stats. If someone is raising with 2% of hands and raises UTG, you can almost safely lay down JJ.

Im not laying down any pp(even 22) unles his raise is greater than 10% of the smallest stack between us. just search "Set mining". Im pretty sure there is an article on here about it.
 
Genso Hikki

Genso Hikki

Cardschat Elite
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Total posts
1,279
Like others have said, it all depends on who I'm playing. If a player who's been very tight, passive suddenly raises pre-flop, I'm not calling with any pair smaller than jacks or possiby Ace, King and I'm probably not raising with anything less than kings. If it's someone who's been seeing more flops raising, I'm calling with a wide range of hands including smaller pocket pairs and, depending on my position, some suited connectors. I'm probably re-raising with TT, JJ, AK, and AQ.

There are of course other things that will influence my decision, like my position, my stack size relative to the rest of the players at the table, my reads on the players who act after me, and occasionally, my "down deep in the gut" feeling about a hand.
 
Munchrs

Munchrs

Legend
Joined
May 25, 2007
Total posts
1,935
and occasionally, my "down deep in the gut" feeling about a hand.

often you "gut feelin" is just a very small tell that you picked up subconiosly. For example if a plyer usually raises 5bb as an opening raise but this hand hes raised 6bb. This is very subtle but very very important if your opponent always raises the same amount and dosnt vary his bets.

my suggestion is follow your gut and hope your right, it seems more often than not my gut is right.

Not varing betting patterns is an interseting concept, but i dont want to hijak this thread so i wont discuss it here. :D
 
Egon Towst

Egon Towst

Cardschat Elite
Joined
Jun 26, 2006
Total posts
6,794
It`s read dependent.

However, this:

Im not laying down any pp(even 22) unles his raise is greater than 10% of the smallest stack between us.

is a valid point and well worth considering. When you have a pocket pair, you can expect to flop a set approximately one time in 8. If your opponent also has a good hand, you are in with an excellent chance of taking his entire stack.

The conventional advice given by many experienced players is to limp in from late position with small pairs when you can see a cheap flop and to muck them otherwise. I would suggest that this latter advice is faulty. Your sets will pay off best when the opponent also has a hand, and it is therefore an error to avoid raised pots.
 
Munchrs

Munchrs

Legend
Joined
May 25, 2007
Total posts
1,935
It`s read dependent.

However, this:



is a valid point and well worth considering. When you have a pocket pair, you can expect to flop a set approximately one time in 8. If your opponent also has a good hand, you are in with an excellent chance of taking his entire stack.

The conventional advice given by many experienced players is to limp in from late position with small pairs when you can see a cheap flop and to muck them otherwise. I would suggest that this latter advice is faulty. Your sets will pay off best when the opponent also has a hand, and it is therefore an error to avoid raised pots.

Actually if your tag and your opponent knows it, then it is better to call there 5bb(or bigger than normal) raise preflop with any pp because there is agreater chance based on thier raise that the have a high pp and when you hit your set the flop will be low and often you can stack him if you play it right. PokerLuckometer is a good tool to ananlyze your play of sets :D
 
aliengenius

aliengenius

Cardschat Elite
Joined
Jul 7, 2006
Total posts
4,596
This is an interesting topic for sure (so let's try to keep it on topic, it's not about set mining/calling, it's about REraising).

A recent Caro article seemed to suggest to me that re-raising and three betting the donkey are bad ideas (at least without AA), but I am still not convinced.

Anyway, I think in general that people probably have too tight of a re-raise range, making their hand easily readable, and limiting the calls they get to hands that can beat them.
 
Munchrs

Munchrs

Legend
Joined
May 25, 2007
Total posts
1,935
Anyway, I think in general that people probably have too tight of a re-raise range, making their hand easily readable, and limiting the calls they get to hands that can beat them.

Yes! Thats why im folding AK suited pf. Also people often over raise or under raise when the re-raise. They either bet to much that everyone folds or not enough(in multi-way called original raise pots) and don scare out the 3 or so people who called a raise and wonder why they lost with AA/KK.

Finding the right amount to re-raise is an art IMO, and i certainly have not perfected it.
 
S

switch0723

Cardschat Elite
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Total posts
8,430
Ill base mine on the circumstance that i have no reads on anyone at the table. If the raise has come from utg, i will fold a,t+ except a,k where i would re raise with position but can fold to another raise from utg, that allows me to know where i am because if i flat call and flop comes king high im in trouble agaisnt aces or kings. I will flat call with tens+ in this situation aswell.

If the raise comes from middle - late position, ill be re raising from the button with a,t+ just so that i can be the aggressor in a hand, even if im domianted by a,q who decid to flat call the re raise, i have a good chance of taking down the pot if they dont hit big.
 
NineLions

NineLions

Advanced beginner
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Total posts
4,979
This in general is opponent dependent. But against unkwnown If i have position and he makes standard raise im reraisn AK,AA,KK,QQ,JJ.

Like others have said, it all depends on who I'm playing. If a player who's been very tight, passive suddenly raises pre-flop, I'm not calling with any pair smaller than jacks or possiby Ace, King and I'm probably not raising with anything less than kings. If it's someone who's been seeing more flops raising, I'm calling with a wide range of hands including smaller pocket pairs and, depending on my position, some suited connectors. I'm probably re-raising with TT, JJ, AK, and AQ.

I'm not far off these choices. Against an unknown, with position, I'm likely to reraise AA/KK/QQ/JJ and AK/AQ. TT and down I'm more likely to call, although TT is kinda the borderline.

And, although this leads a bit off topic, I'm likely to reraise a late position raiser when I'm in the blinds with the same hands. Here I don't have position, but that's the reason why I reraise.


Reads, table size, stack sizes, blind sizes in a tourney situation, all these variables open or narrow the range as others have mentioned.
 
vanquish

vanquish

Legend
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Total posts
12,000
i phase between 3-betting speculative hands in position to colding in position. it really depends on my feel of the table. then again im bad and stack off really light so idk
 
R

r3l3ntl355

Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 2, 2008
Total posts
25
Obviously like everyone has said it's read-dependant.

Assuming he's quite loose but not a donk I'd smooth-call with AQ-T suited and pocket pairs <88. Other PPs I 3-bet. AK I 3-bet hoping to take it down preflop and if he shoves let it go. I don't mind smooth-calling with suited connectors/face cards here to take a flop in position either.
 
killerrat

killerrat

Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Total posts
78
checking and seeing the flop. if you miss less loss. but if you hit. Let them bet into you.
 
Top 10 Games
Top