Question: Sizing up your bets

CubanaD64

CubanaD64

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I see alot of advice on how to size up your bets in No Limit Hold 'Em and it seems to be the main focus most of the time but no one seems to give advice on how to bet after the flop, turn, and river. What are good numbers to bet relative to the pot in different situations and why?
 

♠jczapper♠

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oh im gonna give you some liquid gold...or letter gold or what ever you want to hear. so here goes some basic rules:

1: when looking at a raise preflop you look at it as a multiplier of the the blind ie. 5x the BB. when looking at a bet or raise after the flop you look at it as a fraction of the pot, .5 the pot, the pot, 2x the pot. hopefully you under stand this. now those figures (5x the BB, .5 the pot...) are not set in stone, just examples. now i dont know if im allowed so i will wait for the next part of my answer if someone answers this question for me. can i quote poker books, or do i have to paraphrase and stuff?
 
CubanaD64

CubanaD64

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I'm pretty sure you're allowed to quote so long as you say which book you got it from.
 
vanquish

vanquish

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Read Professional No Limit Hold 'Em if you get a chance - it has excellent information on this.

Trying to be succinct: 2/3 pot usually does the job.
 
CubanaD64

CubanaD64

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2/3 the pot does the job in what situation? For a continuation bet, value bet, or a protection bet?

And thanks, I'll look into purchasing that book.
 
vanquish

vanquish

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2/3 the pot does the job in what situation? For a continuation bet, value bet, or a protection bet?

And thanks, I'll look into purchasing that book.

It's like:
You're dealt TsTd on the button.
You raise 3x (standard).
BB calls.
Flop comes something like 9s4c2c.
BB checks.
Here, you are both continuation betting, likely value betting, and protecting your hand.
2/3 the pot will give you some information on the opponent's hand (if you bet <1/2 the pot, for example, you may not be able to narrow down what hand(s) he would make a call of such a small bet with), will get value out of your hand (he may call you down with worse hands), and protecting your hand (smaller bets will give draws odds to call, and even random hands that you will never be able to put your opponent on later).
In other words, a 2/3 pot bet here will both let you know where you stand (opponent calls/raises, you will consider being behind in the hand), will get money in the pot from worse hands, and will protect your hand from random hands that may hit scare cards later.

Hope that helps some,
V
 
CubanaD64

CubanaD64

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Okay, so now suppose he flat calls the bet in this situation. The turn comes a Jh. What would you do if BB checks? What would you do if BB leads out?
 
vanquish

vanquish

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Yo I gotta sleep but i'll get back to this tomorrow :)
 
CubanaD64

CubanaD64

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Cool, no problem, I'll catch you tomorrow. Thanks for the help so far :)
 
Incognito

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Okay, so now suppose he flat calls the bet in this situation. The turn comes a Jh. What would you do if BB checks? What would you do if BB leads out?


Fire at it again, if he flat called he's probably chasing at higher cards (obviously a general statement) if you fire the bet at it again it becomes an information bet. Flat calling it odds are he's still chasing higher cards (flush, straight possibilities???) he raises maybe he hit it. It's hard to say without knowing the opponents game.

If he does flat call again and checks to you on the river rather than firing at it also check. You'll find out what he's playing with and not risk any more wondering. Remember this hand playing him again though.
 
CubanaD64

CubanaD64

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So from what I understand, the amount that you bet is based on the read you have on your opponent. Okay, since that's established fairly well, how much is a good amount, usually, to chase out a draw and how little would be considered a value bet (where you can induce your opponents to call or even raise with an inferior hand)?

Also, this discussion is implying heads up play. What if this was a multi-way pot? In what ways would you play differently and how would one play from first, second, third position, etc.?
 
blankoblanco

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i like closer to 2/3 the pot on dry boards (not drawy) and closer to 3/4 the pot on wet boards (drawy), maybe 4/5 on a board like 6h7h8s with some variance for trickiness/player dependence. this is on the flop. on the turn, drawing odds are cut in half so i believe you can do often do ~1/2 the pot on dry boards and 2/3+ on drawier boards, although i'll do more than that often, that's just basically my minimum. as long as you're mostly just varying your sizing as a function of the board texture, which everybody can see, and not your actual hand, which is concealed, you remain difficult to read.

the river is a different thing entirely because there's no drawing. basically attempt to put your opponent on a hand or range of hands. if you're value betting, bet what you think he'll call, if bluffing, bet what you think he won't call. there's also blocking bets, fake blocking bets, etc. etc. a world of possibilites. you can get more creative on river betting, i don't have real guidelines i use beyond those
 
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CubanaD64

CubanaD64

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So what you're suggesting is to bet according to what's on the board and what you think is in your opponents hand? In this case you would bet trip Aces the same way you would bet a pair of Aces or what?
 
blankoblanco

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So what you're suggesting is to bet according to what's on the board and what you think is in your opponents hand? In this case you would bet trip Aces the same way you would bet a pair of Aces or what?

well it depends if i want to get called or not and if i think i'll get called, but basically, yes

if i think it's likely that i'll get called, ideally i'd like to bet roughly the same amount with any hand i'm betting for value.

like if i have AQ on a Ad8s6s board i'll bet about 3/4 the pot for value, because i can get definitely get called by worse and the board is somewhat drawy. i'm getting good value from weaker aces while giving draws bad odds

if i have 88 on the same Ad8s6s board i'll also bet 3/4 the pot for value again, even though it's a much stronger hand. a lot of players will get overwhelmed with the strength of their hand and do a dinky 1/3 or 1/2 pot bet here because they're afraid of scaring people out. but besides getting less value from As and letting players draw with good odds, it might tip people off if you're usually making bigger bets on this board with bluffs/weaker hands

this is just a general way to make yourself less readable without being exploitable. it's often read dependent.. i mean if you have a strong hand and there's a calling station who you know will call a pot-sized bet with any pair, go ahead and make it pot-sized on any board when you want to get called.
 
CubanaD64

CubanaD64

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Wow cool, I actually never thought about betting as a way to keep yourself from being read. That's something I will definitely keep in mind. On top of that, I love your advice on betting on every street and in different situations, it's very concise, thanks alot :)
 
Incognito

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I love your advice on betting on every street

In my experience I've found a lot more people will muck to a turn bet than they will a flop bet, always continuation bet the turn and evaluate the hand from there.

Number of people involved possibilities on board are all factors though, but keep in mind that you bet could also be representing something on board that is insignificant to your hand but is enough to scare the villain off.
 
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fomoppy

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PREFLOP i raise 3 times the blind and then had a small blind to that raise for every limper in front of me. so if three guys limp before me in 5/10 blinds i will raise to 45
FLOP. if i raised preflop i will always lead out for the continuation, whether to protect or to maximize profit it will always be about 70% of the pot
TURN-. bet according to the board and your hand and what you put your opponent on. bet about 70% again but if there are draws out there then bet pretty close to a pot size bet to get his odds out of the way
RIVER i come to the value bet-about the same as the turn bet if nothing scary came out an di think i have the best
 
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