Q&A - How to win money at MTTs

[Irexes]

Let's say that the tourney is still on the first-second blind level and you have 3-4x starting stack, which makes you the overall chip leader this early in the tourney.
Is it alright to loosen up your starting hand requirements?

My view is that in the first hour you should be trying to see as many flops as possible where it is inconsequential to your chipstack to do so. When the blinds are 10/20 and you have 3000 chips then for me limping QTo in early position becomes incredibly +$EV. This is because if it is raised behind or I whiff the flop I'll fold without concern. I've got 2980 chips now and no impact at all in my chance of making the real money. However if the flop comes QT6 with two limpers behind then the tool with J9 is probably going to donate me 1500 chips chasing his draw before we get to the river.

Half (or more) of the people in any MTT go out in the first hour and most of them chasing or getting in light with hands that easy to pick off. The trick is to put yourself in a position to take advantage of this as often as you can without jeopardising your chipstack. So I play Loose-passive-passive in the first hour really only waking up when I hit a flop hard (and hard is usually TPTK or better. If you bust o well move on to the next.

Now to answer the question, a big stack allows you to see even more flops as losing up to 150 chips in a 10000+ chipstack is inconsequential. So I probably loosen up my requirements for calling small raises (ie someone raises to 3bb in ep, I'd probably call with KQ, KJ type hands if they weren't a rock). The caution is that you don't want to spew chips just because you have a few. I am I think at my strongest on the flop and don't give away many chips to ill-fated bluffs.

With a big stack say you have 12k chips, my view is that it is not worth risking 2k of those chips to gain another 2k as at this early stage the impact of the benefit of those extra chips does not outway the detriment to your chances of losing 2k. Essentially after a certain point each chip is worth less than the previous one. Badly explained possibly but a critical point in bigstack play.

During the first lets say hour exactly how tight are you playing. Is TPTK actually a show-down hand during this time, or are you just wating for your big PP's and trying to get chips in PF?

I think a lot of the answer to this is above. I play a lot of hands in the first hour but it's more about selecting who I play against post-flop than it is about card-selection. If you target the bad players then you will seldom find TPTK not holding up.

And yep, TPTK on non-scary boards I'm looking to stack every time. IF they have a set move on.

(My stats on OPR show me not busting early very often so this shouldn't imply a cavalier attitude in the first hour).

 

[Egon Towst]

What are your thoughts on stalling? I like to time down near the bubble when hand for hand play isn't in effect yet. However, Bodog issued me a warning about it.

Would that have been in a satellite, Joe ?

Stalling in bodog satellites is a chronic problem and does often result in other players becoming annoyed with the short-stack and complaining to support.

Unlike many sites, the Bodog tournament software does not switch to hand-to-hand play as the bubble approaches. There is therefore an incentive for a short-stacked player to drag each hand out as long as possible, in the hope that others will bust out and promote him into a qualifying position before he blinds off.

In a satellite which pays (say) twenty seats, it is as good to be twentieth as to be first and there is therefore some point to this tactic. As Rex says, it`s probably fairly dumb in a normal cash-prize tourney.

Even where there is a purpose to it, you are taking a big risk. Rule #7 of Bodog`s rules says that intentional slow-playing is not permitted. You could have your account frozen.

 

[dweezel]

I have a small bankroll spread out over several sites, around 50 bucks on each site. I've never deposited !!!!!!!!
And I play MTT's and SNG's and I'm a FRW. I play dollar tourneys and sng's. I've been stuck at this level for some time now. Which tourneys /SNG's etc do you find would be easier to build your b/r. and which ones should I avoid . I've had lots of small cashes couple of final tables, 2 wins, yeah I still need some practice.

Oh yea ...any do's and don'ts for bubble play would be a big help. For the short stack as well as the big stack.

Thanks Rex.

 

[Irexes]

I'm really pissed you didn't answer my first question. You're now on my sh!t list.

I am on many sh!t lists, I have a list of them

However, I'm offering you a chance to get off it:

1) How many satallites do you play? It seems like these would be high variance (win a tourney to win a tourney to make money). Seems like too much stuff has to happen for them to be consistently profitable.

Assuming you are a winning tourney player over the long run (which is not true of many people) then providing it is within bankroll then playing any tourney with a decent structure should be +$EV. The other factor to consider being time.

I have played a lot of sats to the Sunday events in the past. The turbo rebuys were my favourit because they had such a lot of dead money, they are a bit of a lottery but providing you play smart then it's definitely cheaper than buying in, with a ticket probably costing on average about $100-$150 instead of $215. I had some incredible runs where I qualified in a few on the trot, but it's important not to forget about the other end of variance where you miss a few in a row.

I've now started either buying in or using FPP tickets to the Sunday warm-up. In part this is cause my roll can stand it, but also because of the loss of earnings from ring while playing the sats.

2) How much tourney selection do you do? Do you look for overlays in guaranteed tournaments? Or do you just play whatever?

Coincidentally I wrote about this in my blog not long ago, see below. I think it's very important and satellites aside I don't play turbos. Double-stack tournies are great, so are rebuys. Anything that makes the average M bigger later in the tourney. Hard to find overlays, but if they can be found then great.

Game selection in Tournies
Table selection is huge in Ring games. What is given less attention is game selection in tournaments. There is no doubt in my mind that MTT success can be significantly improved by carefully choosing which ones you play. Of course unlike Ring games you don't get to choose based on your opponents. Instead pay close attention to the structure, it really makes a difference.

My favourite tournaments all provide more chips than the standard Stars structure (which is 1500 chips). With the normal blind levels this can easily be a case of one hand going wrong post-flop and you are in push-mode in the first hour. More worryingly it can mean that the average stack in the mid-late stages of the tourney is less than 20bbs. And that is a recipe for luck over skill.

My recommendations:

- the $44 6-max tourney - starts about 1600hrs gmt
for some reason about 90 of the 150 starters in this bust in the first hour (presumably due to overplaying the short-handedness. This results in a quick rush to the final 30 and deepers stacks than most 1500 chip tournies allow.

- Any rebuy you are rolled to play "properly"
yes I know people can win rebuys by not rebuying or adding on and good luck to them. However it is so huuuuuuuuuuugely +EV to play a rebuy where you can afford to exploit any edge in the rebuy period with zero concern for the cost. I'm not talking about being stupid but instead taking the flips and pushing hard versus the fools. Of course rebuys mean deep-stacks, and deep-stacks are good if you are wanting to exploit your skill-based edge.

- the $22, 1 rebuy, 1 add-on tourney - starts about 1930 gmt
this tourney is great. Play it like a $62 and rebuy immediately and enjoy the deeper stack. Lots of people playing scared or donking off 1500 chips and then rebuying. Later stages see nice deep stacks. A truly soft tourney with a lot of people way out of their depth.

Will playing these tournies guarentee success? No! But it does give you another couple of % on your side which should be all you need. Playing any tourney should be a long-term positive expectation if you have the mad skills, but it's nice to have the odds pushed a little in your favour.

I wrote that about the $22 rebuy, just before my 1st win in it btw

3) Are rebuys/bounty tourneys more profitable than traditional freeze-outs?

More profitable is a tricky one. The variance is probably bigger with scope for bigger wins, but long-term I'd suggest not much difference. Of course an MTT players career may not be long enough for the long-term to assery itself given the structure of payouts where one big win can make a huuuuuge difference.

However providing you are properly rolled to not worry about rebuying as often as necessary rebuys are a great way to exploit dead money and bad play in the first hour and deeper stacks later on.

4) What do you make of 6 handed tournaments, or deepstacked/short stacked & turbo tournaments? Or do you stick with traditional freeze-outs?

See above. No turbos, like deepstacks when I have the time (came 2nd in the first one I played a while back). Double stacks (3000 chips) are lovely and rebuys are good fun. I try and avoid the standard structure 1500 chips freezeouts if I can nowadays and my ITM% seems to have benefitted.

5) Play anything other than hold'em?

Nope. Razz makes baby Jesus cry.

 

[Irexes]

Great posts Rex,

Do you make notes from the start or wait untill some/most of the field have gone, asking because I play low stakes tourneys with usally large feilds.

Same question with reviewing the HHs.

Thanks.

From the very first hand I'm taking notes and reading HHs like crazy. Admittedly I'm more focussed the deeper it gets, but every %age edge counts so I'm not missing a thing if I can help it. I suspect a lot of people don't zone in to the tourney until later, but you can't get to the end unless you get through the early parts.

 

[E-Dub]

Great thread. A must-read IMO.

Keep it up!

 

[bob_tiger]

Rex slow down lol, I need to catch up, nah jk, keep going, but I'm going to read this and I think I can think of few more Q's so be ready lol.

 

[mitchellz]

Hello,

What's the best ways that you guys have found to make money at the micro levels?

I'm looking for specific tourneys, sit and gos, etc, and strategies as well.

I like pokerstars but I'm not married to it.

Thanks guys.

 

[Munchrs]

heres a situation I found myself in yesterday. With 22 players left in a 180 man SNG I had 40k in chips, the average was 15k or so and there were all medium stacks at my table who I had been exploiting thier blinds like crazy, then the 2nd place chipstack gets moved to my right with 35k. How should we adjust our game due to the fact that now instead of only being able to loose 15k in a hand we can loose 35k to one player. Should we tighten up or try and push this guy around aswell?

Later in the same tourny, I find myself with 130k and blinds 500/1000 with 6 players left. average stack around 40k, but there is again a guy with 80k and the rest all have 15-20kish stacks, everyone is playing fairly tight aroun 19vpip, again how do you approach this as there are no real medium stacks just 4 shorties and 2 big stacks, dou you use your chip advantage to race a few people and move up the payout or sit back and wait for big hands?

 

[Mattf593]

2 Qs

1. When there is a very small window for cash do you change your style at all?

2. How do you build your chipstack in the middle stages, if you come out of say the first hour, slightly below the average?

 

[Irexes]

Haven't forgotten this, just keen to give proper anwers rather than one-liners.

Will get back soon with PAHUD comments and the rest of them

 

[dj11]

Allow me to answer a question for you Rex.

For the micro players at Stars a very good game is the $2+.20 satelite to the Sunday 100 grand. 36 seat S'nG's award 6 seats to the 100K, and some bucks for 7th place. I have won a seat to these playing as few as 3 winning hands.

You can then play the 100K or convert to T$ by unregistering. You get $11 T$ doing this. T$ spend just like real money but can only be used in tourney's. At sites that don't allow you to unregister and collect value, well, change sites.

There are similar games at Tilt. Look under S'n'G's, Satelites at any site and you will likely find something similar. If you are a stickler for details you may find some that offer better value.

In all cases I have played, you can usually win with patience and not going in all maniacally agro.

 

[naruto_miu]

Ok, here's a question, Say your a passive player, and this dude is constantly picking on your blinds, now you know, that this dude is raising with alot of hands, and u know that your J high is really not in a postion to play back at him, but due to your tight play in this tourney/mtt, is it fair enough to say that with 20 bbs left it's time to fight back at this player, constantly whenever he limps in or do we still just let him have our blinds?, and if we decided to fight back at him is there a min to fight back with in hand ranges or can we do it with any 2 cards, since you have been like a hermit in this game?

2nd is table image usuable to make big plays later on in a tourney/mtt, and since we know it is usuable, is there a table that should be used at it, or is it safe to say u can use it at any table?, and should u use your image to fight only the big stacks, small stacks, or all the stacks?

ty

 

[nc_royals]

Nice Post Rex... I realize now how weak my MTT game is. I feel like I play too tight and never change gears. I hardly ever use the Re-raise which seems to be a powerful tool reading your post. In short it seems like Im fine till the Blinds really get Big and then Im just looking for a position to try to Double up.
Thanks for the insight and keep posting.