First up let me say that I'll be coming at this from "my" point of view. I am well aware of the fact that I have a different approach to many people (good players) in certain situations. This doesn't mean I disagree with how they may play a hand. What I have is an overall strategy for MTTs in the context of which certain "unusual" things happen. This often means making lay-downs preflop where others would shoving (usually mid-late), and sometimes means shoving or getting chips all-in in situations where others would be limiting pot size (usually early).
So with that in mind I'm going to deal with these in the order they come in. Thanks for the Qs so far (and Egon is spot on in his assessment of why this is tricky and the context sensitive nature of absolutely everything).
For all these questions let's make it $22 buy-in freezeout 3000 chips tourney unless otherwise stated. Quite honestly there's not a lot of difference in the standard of play from the $5s to the $215s, the proportion of fools to solid players shifts a bit, but I seldom change my approach much based on buy-in.
Question 1
ok here is my question, late in tourneys, lets say you are on the button, and a co raises with no limpers and you know he/she might be stealing, what range would you 3 bet with, ( I understand that its possible to do it with any two but what if we get re raised all in)
Let's say we are in the money and there are 27 people left (three full tables). Lets give us both 25 big blinds, which is probably around or just below the average.
So the CO raises (let's say a standard 3xBB bet).
Things to consider
1) His VPIP, PFR and image
2) My cards
3) My image
4) Any previous hands between the two of us
5) How active is the table?
6) The stack sizes of the blinds
1) His VPIP, PFR and image
As with pretty much everything I do, the first thing I consider is who I'm up against in the hand. I'll fold hands to some people that I'll shove against others.
Because in tournaments you seldom get a really good sample to make Pokertracker based decisions it's important to get a good sense of people based on a combination of the stats and the way they have played the hands they've been involved in.
Note: if you don't use Pokertracker and PAHUD then you are missing out on a spectacular amount of information that will cost you money. If it's for financial reasons fair enough (next Christmas ask someone to buy it for you). If it's for ethical reasons about tools being unfair then well done, but you are costing yourself money that you are giving to those who are using them.
To further inform this decision I make sure that during a tournament
I read the Hand History of every single hand that has any post flop action or significant preflop action and make notes accordingly. This is the most critical thing I do as information is power and there is a ton of it in every hand that is played.
So assuming I've been at the table with this guy for more than 10 hands I'll have some stats (tentative) and some notes. I'll hopefully have formed some opinion on him sufficient to tentatively peg him as either
a) Fish
b) Superfish
b) Tight solid
c) Tight passive
d) Loose aggressive
e) Loose passive
e) No idea
And whether or not he's good enough to be paying attention to what I'm doing and respond accordingly. This is important because there's no point making plays and engaging in third level thinking against someone who has no clue what you are doing.
Exactly how you analyse the pokertracker stats is not something I'll go into at the moment other than the following couple of points:
- If someone has a VPIP% of played no hands at all (even over a sample of 10 hands) then assume they are tight until demonstrated otherwise
- If someone has a VPIP% of <12% over 100 hands then they are trying to play "good" poker and should be treated as paying attention to what is going on
- If someone has a VPIP% over 30% then assume they are playing too many hands
- If they have a preflop raise over 15% then there's a vulnerability to reraises which can be exploited.
An important note: It absolutely doesn't matter if you get the classification wrong. All that matters is that you get it right enough to make the correct decision a reasonable % of the time. If subsequent information says something different then change your view of them.
All of this however is only one piece of information and should be taken in context with notes, and other observations.
Without doubt this stage is the most important and informs everything that follows...
2) My cards
Yay, actually going to answer the question now
Versus Fish and Loose players
- Call with AJo, 55-77 and KK, AA (sometimes) - looking for opportunities post-flop
- Raise to 7BB-8BB (much more than this and it's pot-commitment time post-flop and it'll do the job if they are going to fold) - 88-QQ, AQ, AK, AA,KK
Fold everything else (not ready to get pot committed with KQ on a Q high flop in this kind of situation when they could actually have AA-JJ, AK etc, even a blind pig occassionally finds a truffle)
Versus Tighties and solid players
- Call - nothing - there's no hand I want to get involved with here that isn't worth raising with. Tight players respect preflop 3-bets. Calling preflop in non-deepstack situations gives away a lot of initiative. (caveat: sometimes I'll call with AA-KK and AK here in order to lay a cheeky trap postflop).
- raise 9BB - 88+ AQ, AK
Tighties deserve respect for paying attention. If I have a hand I want them to start thinking this is a tournament defining decision and act accordingly. If they have a hand I want them to tell me with a reraise now or something significant on the flop.
Fold - everything else.
No need to be a hero with plenty of time.
3) My image
If I've been playing tight then I'll loosen my range a tiny bit.
If I've made a move that may be perceived as bad or loose then I'm not too worried, it just means that villains range for 4-betting may have got a bit larger, which is good.
4) Any previous hands between the two of us
This is very context specific, but have we been in this situation before? Has one of us doubled up the other? Does this mean he is more or less likely to think I'm
bluffing or affect his assessment of my range?
5) How active is the table?
The more active the table (lot's of action on hands) the more likely opportunities are going to present themselves to accumulate chips with low risk. On an active table I'll pass on marginal situations and tighten my range a bit in order to take advantage of a better situation versus a fish.
6) The stack sizes of the blinds
Are the blinds deep or short, are they shoving every hand. Shouldn't make a huge difference but needs considering before making a move.
That's one answer for one situation with stacks that are reasonable.
If I'm deepstacked >35BB v a shorty <15BB then the range gets a lot wider as a steal is more likely and the importance of the hand to me is less than to the villain as for him it's a defining moment but for me it's a small % of stack, this is a huge advantage in any hand.
If I'm semi-shortstacked <15 v another shorty then I will play surprisingly tight as any hand I play I am committed to putting my whole stack in.
I'll call 88-TT and AJ (maybe AT, KQ)
Raise 6bb (I want a call) JJ+, AK, AQ
Shove 22-99
My view is that people get too anxious to double up with >8BBs and panic themselves into situations where they are dominated. There are so many bad plays that there's no need to take unnecessary risks.
If I'm shortstacked <8BB then versus anyone the range is bigger (and the bigger the villains stack the bigger it gets). Versus a medium stack it's round about,
Shove KT+
22+
Call QQ,KK,AA
Important to remember that this is all for the situation late in a tourney as described above. Early-mid tourney all this is affected by other factors
ok and the next part, if the raiser re raises you all in what range would you be calling with? How do the stacks and blinds affect your decision?
I'm not calling any 4 bet here unless we are both really deepstacked (which is rare). Whatever the 4 bet is then it really means pot-commitment and I want to be dictating the hand so if I'm good enough to call then it's good enough to shove.
So it's shove or fold for me if I'm medium stacked,
And the range for shoving is,
Versus looser players shoving QQ-AA and AK (I hate getting all-in with AQ!)
Versus Fish TT+ AK
Versus superfish 77+ AJ and if they are really bad I'll shove down to A8.
Also another question, if you are the one raising from CO, what range would you 4 bet with?
Again if it's a 4 bet it's a shove for me and all that is dependant on the range of the villain. Generally though I'm calling reraise with TT+ AK and shoving 4bet TT,JJ and AK (overlap intentional as it would vary). Again very read depedant.
Weeeeee 1 down