Polished Poker Vol. I Study Group

[or3o1990]

I've reevaluated my goals and I'll be reposting them tomorrow but first I figured I would share some of the results I've had thus far. Mind you I've only been playing cash games for about six months. Outside of these 125k hands I've played maybe 1k lifetime including live poker. So here's my graph.

I've managed an about 4bb/100 overall and 7.8bb/100 in the second half of those hands. This is mainly at 100nl but there's a bit of 50nl and 200nl as well. My winrate and confidence in my game have increased greatly over the past several months. An increase I attribute mostly to all of you in this thread. I don't have anyone I can talk poker with face to face. Being able to review hands and having live sweat sessions with you all has improved my game immensely.

I just want to say thanks to John for your books, software and for taking time out of your day to help keep us all heading in the right direction! And a big thanks to all of you here who make this thread what it is. Lets all continue to put our heads together, study and work as hard as we can in 2016 and let the cards fall where they may. I'll be back in the a.m. with my revised list of goals!

 

[Figaroo2]

Caled 3Bet in position. Called Flop 2nd pair 2 backdoors, once they checked turn tried to take initiative back and get thin value or deny them their equity with smallish bet.Would fold to a shove from likely Set, TJ, KQ or possible Semi BLuff with something like AJclubs. Good or Bad Turn Bet??

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $10.50 (105 bb) 38/38 33% AG 8 hands
BB: $21.30 (213 bb)
UTG: $32.22 (322.2 bb)
MP: $14.54 (145.4 bb)
Hero (CO): $10 (100 bb)
BTN: $7.69 (76.9 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A

Q

2 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, BTN folds, SB raises to $1.20, BB folds, Hero calls $0.90

Flop: ($2.50) Q

2

K

(2 players)
SB bets $1.50, Hero calls $1.50
Turn: ($5.50) 9

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2

This looks fine to me. I might make it just a little larger to say 2.50 as we want to be denying him the correct odds to draw to a FD and keeping the maths simple ie near half pot makes it easier for him to work that out. Some of us still pay attention to express and implied odds!
Here oop with something like Ac Xc I might be tempted to peel one for $2 but not for half pot as I know my implied odds oop are bad and if a club comes I'm unlikely to win anything extra on the end.

 

[rhombus]

I would be checking the turn back and calling a river bet on everything except a T or J, by checking the turn we give him room to bluff the river and our hand is basically a bluff catcher by that point.

If he checks river you could look at a value bet as you may get calls from worse queens, TT, JJ, T9, J9 etc. From these initial 8 hands it looks like he could be quite aggro pre, meaning he could have quite a wide resteal range.

This looks fine to me. I might make it just a little larger to say 2.50 as we want to be denying him the correct odds to draw to a FD and keeping the maths simple ie near half pot makes it easier for him to work that out. Some of us still pay attention to express and implied odds!
Here oop with something like Ac Xc I might be tempted to peel one for $2 but not for half pot as I know my implied odds oop are bad and if a club comes I'm unlikely to win anything extra on the end.

Thanks guys,
villain was light 3betting and just called the $2 Turn and schecked river when they spiked 2 pair



Preflop: Hero is CO with A

Q

2 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, BTN folds, SB raises to $1.20, BB folds, Hero calls $0.90

Flop: ($2.50) Q

2

K

(2 players)
SB bets $1.50, Hero calls $1.50

Turn: ($5.50) 9

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2, SB calls $2

River: ($9.50) T

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Results: $9.50 pot ($0.43 rake)
Final Board: Q

2

K

9

T

SB showed T

9

and won $9.07 ($4.37 net)
Hero mucked A

Q

and lost (-$4.70 net)

 

[rhombus]

I need therapy Im an addict and just cant help myself, call a 3bet with decent odds and flop top pair on dry board what to do ???. Maybe 4bet Pre to 2.50 and fold to shove??
or cal flop and fold to turn unless I pick up more equity
villain 38/31 100% aggression only 7 hands
poker stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $14.62 (146.2 bb)
BB: $12.95 (129.5 bb)
UTG: $9.81 (98.1 bb)
Hero (MP): $11.60 (116 bb)
CO: $10 (100 bb)
BTN: $15.97 (159.7 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J

A

UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.30, CO raises to $0.90, BTN calls $0.90, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.60

Flop: ($2.85) 5

3

J

(3 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $1.35, BTN folds, Hero raises to $4.96, CO raises to $9.10 and is all-in, Hero calls $4.14

Turn: ($21.05) 2

(2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: ($21.05) T

(2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results: $21.05 pot ($0.95 rake)
Final Board: 5

3

J

2

T

Hero showed J

A

and lost (-$10 net)
CO showed K

K

and won $20.10 ($10.10 net)
BTN mucked and lost (-$0.90 net)

 

[John A]

Breaking news, I think bovada doesn't work with the bovada card catcher or HM2 anymore..

Correct. We're working on a fix for it. I don't have an ETA, but we're making progress, so it won't be too long.

 

[John A]

Caled 3Bet in position. Called Flop 2nd pair 2 backdoors, once they checked turn tried to take initiative back and get thin value or deny them their equity with smallish bet.Would fold to a shove from likely Set, TJ, KQ or possible Semi BLuff with something like AJclubs. Good or Bad Turn Bet??

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $10.50 (105 bb) 38/38 33% AG 8 hands
BB: $21.30 (213 bb)
UTG: $32.22 (322.2 bb)
MP: $14.54 (145.4 bb)
Hero (CO): $10 (100 bb)
BTN: $7.69 (76.9 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A

Q

2 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, BTN folds, SB raises to $1.20, BB folds, Hero calls $0.90

Flop: ($2.50) Q

2

K

(2 players)
SB bets $1.50, Hero calls $1.50

Turn: ($5.50) 9

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2

I like it. I like it even better if we know a little more about his aggression tendencies. The more aggressive he is, the more I'd prefer the check the turn and call the river. W/o that info and only 8 hands, I like the bet. You'll get value from second best hands and draws, and he'll likely check the river and you can decide what you want to do.

 

[or3o1990]

we're making progress, so it won't be too long.

I just got a chubby!

 

[John A]

I've reevaluated my goals and I'll be reposting them tomorrow but first I figured I would share some of the results I've had thus far. Mind you I've only been playing cash games for about six months. Outside of these 125k hands I've played maybe 1k lifetime including live poker. So here's my graph.

I've managed an about 4bb/100 overall and 7.8bb/100 in the second half of those hands. This is mainly at 100nl but there's a bit of 50nl and 200nl as well. My winrate and confidence in my game have increased greatly over the past several months. An increase I attribute mostly to all of you in this thread. I don't have anyone I can talk poker with face to face. Being able to review hands and having live sweat sessions with you all has improved my game immensely.

I just want to say thanks to John for your books, software and for taking time out of your day to help keep us all heading in the right direction! And a big thanks to all of you here who make this thread what it is. Lets all continue to put our heads together, study and work as hard as we can in 2016 and let the cards fall where they may. I'll be back in the a.m. with my revised list of goals!

Awesome David... thanks for the feedback. You've made a ton of improvements, so congrats. All you guys have, it's very noticeable in how you talk about the spots you're in, and it's nice to see that validated in your results as well.

I think all of your guys results are improving, or just about to. So well done to everyone. I have a lot more ideas on what we're going to do this year, and I think we can pick up the pace even more, so it will be exciting to see how we all do this year.

 

[John A]

Thanks guys,
villain was light 3betting and just called the $2 Turn and schecked river when they spiked 2 pair



Preflop: Hero is CO with A

Q

2 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, BTN folds, SB raises to $1.20, BB folds, Hero calls $0.90

Flop: ($2.50) Q

2

K

(2 players)
SB bets $1.50, Hero calls $1.50

Turn: ($5.50) 9

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2, SB calls $2

River: ($9.50) T

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Results: $9.50 pot ($0.43 rake)
Final Board: Q

2

K

9

T

SB showed T

9

and won $9.07 ($4.37 net)
Hero mucked A

Q

and lost (-$4.70 net)

Hehe... didn't see this, but yeah. So we like the bet even more now right? lol

Seriously though, it's better to bet in that spot like you did because they can hit some piece and you have no idea of knowing how often they'll bluff on busted draws on the river. So you ensure that you get that turn value. I think I might have shoved river on that runout, just because a J isn't in his range much (minus JJ), but it's in yours a good amount. But I don't mind the check behind w/o info at these limits.

 

[John A]

I need therapy Im an addict and just cant help myself, call a 3bet with decent odds and flop top pair on dry board what to do ???. Maybe 4bet Pre to 2.50 and fold to shove??
or cal flop and fold to turn unless I pick up more equity
villain 38/31 100% aggression only 7 hands
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $14.62 (146.2 bb)
BB: $12.95 (129.5 bb)
UTG: $9.81 (98.1 bb)
Hero (MP): $11.60 (116 bb)
CO: $10 (100 bb)
BTN: $15.97 (159.7 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J

A

UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.30, CO raises to $0.90, BTN calls $0.90, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.60

Flop: ($2.85) 5

3

J

(3 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $1.35, BTN folds, Hero raises to $4.96, CO raises to $9.10 and is all-in, Hero calls $4.14

Turn: ($21.05) 2

(2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: ($21.05) T

(2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results: $21.05 pot ($0.95 rake)
Final Board: 5

3

J

2

T

Hero showed J

A

and lost (-$10 net)
CO showed K

K

and won $20.10 ($10.10 net)
BTN mucked and lost (-$0.90 net)

These are the spots where it won't make your stats deviate too much, and you can still stay in a profitable range if you don't do it TOO often, but you lose a lot of your profit when you do make these plays.

Dry board... w/o some history or info, much better to just c/c flop. But I'd lean towards folding pre-flop. I don't even know what it means, got good odds? I hear people say that all the time in no-limit... what does that mean exactly? Do people think they're playing limit poker when they say this?

 

[rhombus]

These are the spots where it won't make your stats deviate too much, and you can still stay in a profitable range if you don't do it TOO often, but you lose a lot of your profit when you do make these plays.

Dry board... w/o some history or info, much better to just c/c flop. But I'd lean towards folding pre-flop. I don't even know what it means, got good odds? I hear people say that all the time in no-limit... what does that mean exactly? Do people think they're playing limit poker when they say this?

I know Jason Somerville talks about it alot when playing tournaments and sometimes cash although he is a fish at times especially when calling from the blinds. He mentions getting certain odds and equity etc.

So in hand above Im getting 3.5/1 so only need 22% equity 3 ways which I think I have at least that.

3ways against KK and a random hand I have 28%

 

[rhombus]

These are the spots where it won't make your stats deviate too much, and you can still stay in a profitable range if you don't do it TOO often, but you lose a lot of your profit when you do make these plays.

Dry board... w/o some history or info, much better to just c/c flop. But I'd lean towards folding pre-flop. I don't even know what it means, got good odds? I hear people say that all the time in no-limit... what does that mean exactly? Do people think they're playing limit poker when they say this?

Is there a filter I can run that shows when I flop top pair good kicker on dry board and get owned or something similar to see how much I actually lose.

Even though I know deep down at times I should fold although it hurts LOL. I guess at lower limits there arent enough players who will exploit you so folding should be easier, but at higher levels surely you cant keep folding hands like this and have to fight back

 

[rhombus]

actually just tried to run a filter. Out of 104815 hands at 6Max Zoom NL which my bb/100 is actually -0.01

When I filter for FLopping One Pair- Top Pair - Good Kicker the stats look ok bb/100 265.93. Are these stats normal for flopping top pair

 

[Figaroo2]

The current cash game promotion on Stars has doubled the amount of FR 10nl tables from the usual 70-80 odd up to 150-160 tables and they are stacked with fish.
Picked up over 6 buy ins this session just opening 16 tables and playing abc.. I'd say its worth dropping down from 25nl whilst this promo is running.

This spot caused me the most problem against confirmed tight passive villain.

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 7 Players

Hero (SB): $10.20 (102 bb)
BB: $11.84 (118.4 bb) - VPIP: 12, PFR: 6, 3B: 1, AF: 1.8, Hands: 428
MP1: $11.72 (117.2 bb)
MP2: $10.32 (103.2 bb)
MP3: $4.63 (46.3 bb)
CO: $12.23 (122.3 bb)
BTN: $10.50 (105 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K:club: K:diamond:
5 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.60) K:heart: A:diamond: 9:heart: (2 players)
Hero bets $0.42, BB calls $0.42

Turn: ($1.44) Q:diamond: (2 players)
Hero bets $1.03, BB calls $1.03

River: ($3.50) 2:heart: (2 players)
Hero bets $1.67, BB raises to $7.30, Hero?


Same villain later in the session
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players

SB: $14.95 (149.5 bb)
BB: $3.74 (37.4 bb)
UTG+2: $11.72 (117.2 bb)
MP1: $10.32 (103.2 bb)
MP2: $4.63 (46.3 bb)
MP3: $12.23 (122.3 bb)
CO: $10.50 (105 bb)
Hero (BTN): $10 (100 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with 3:spade: 3:heart:
4 folds, CO raises to $0.30, Hero calls $0.30, SB calls $0.25, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($1.20) 8:heart: A:spade: 3:club: (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, CO bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, SB calls $0.50, BB folds

Turn: ($2.70) J:club: (3 players)
SB checks, CO bets $1, Hero calls $1, SB raises to $2.70, CO folds, Hero calls $1.70

River: ($9.10) 6:club: (2 players)
SB bets $5.20, Hero calls $5.20

Results: $19.50 pot ($0.88 rake)
Final Board: 8:heart: A:spade: 3:club: J:club: 6:club:
SB showed J:heart: A:heart: and lost (-$8.70 net)
Hero showed 3:spade: 3:heart: and won $18.62 ($9.92 net)

 

[Figaroo2]

actually just tried to run a filter. Out of 104815 hands at 6Max Zoom NL which my bb/100 is actually -0.01
When I filter for FLopping One Pair- Top Pair - Good Kicker the stats look ok bb/100 265.93. Are these stats normal for flopping top pair

Looks pretty good, better than mine by some distance...mine is 156 bb/100 for last year
I seem to play TPTK much more aggressively than TPGK.
It is fairly easy to locate these filters if you click under more filters which for me is below the date range.

 

[fishinthesea]

Correct. We're working on a fix for it. I don't have an ETA, but we're making progress, so it won't be too long.

THANK GOOD NESS... GREAT NEWS.

 

[No Brainer]

The current cash game promotion on Stars has doubled the amount of FR 10nl tables from the usual 70-80 odd up to 150-160 tables and they are stacked with fish.
Picked up over 6 buy ins this session just opening 16 tables and playing abc.. I'd say its worth dropping down from 25nl whilst this promo is running.

Think I broke my toe last night, kicking it on the corner of the bed, as soon as I'm back from the doctors I will be joining you in the fishing, most likely for the rest of the day.

 

[John A]

I know Jason Somerville talks about it alot when playing tournaments and sometimes cash although he is a fish at times especially when calling from the blinds. He mentions getting certain odds and equity etc.

So in hand above Im getting 3.5/1 so only need 22% equity 3 ways which I think I have at least that.

3ways against KK and a random hand I have 28%

Yeah, see I've never understood this. No, you don't have any equity. What you have is a hand w/ X EV if played properly. You're not all-in pre-flop, so unless you have specific max betting amounts, which you don't in no-limit, calling should only be expressed in EV, and not equity. If you fold, you have zero equity, which often happens on the flop when you're OOP in a 3-bet pot.

I don't know... I've just never understood why people talk like this in no-limit. It makes no logical sense to me and never has.

 

[John A]

I mean you can say, I think I can win this hand more than 22% of the time if I call here, but I don't think you should be thinking in those terms unless yon truly quantify your EV in that spot because you don't know how big of a pot you're winning that 22% of the time.

 

[or3o1990]

I know Jason Somerville talks about it alot when playing tournaments and sometimes cash although he is a fish at times especially when calling from the blinds. He mentions getting certain odds and equity etc.

So in hand above Im getting 3.5/1 so only need 22% equity 3 ways which I think I have at least that.

3ways against KK and a random hand I have 28%

I've done this to myself several times trying to avoid tough turn and river decisions but what always happens is either the villain folds on the flop and we pick it up or we get it all in as a huge underdog. It only doesn't seem like it because we've given ourselves such a sweet price by reraising the flop. I've heard Somerville say this plenty too but what is he thinking when he says it? If we really want to calculate our equity here we have to take into consideration what the villains range and the and what parts of it we're folding out here plus how far we are behind every time he's willing to GII. It's an uncomfortable spot to call and when an K or Q turns or rivers and have to face more pressure it sucks. But if we raise flop we get minimum value from the hands we beat and we will certainly be beating a lot of his hands at this point. If the flop was super wet then I think it's better because he can GII with his draws.

 

[rhombus]

I mean you can say, I think I can win this hand more than 22% of the time if I call here, but I don't think you should be thinking in those terms unless yon truly quantify your EV in that spot because you don't know how big of a pot you're winning that 22% of the time.

what about odds with suited connectors pockets pairs i.e. getting 20/1 against effective stacks not immediate odds of calling the bet.

 

[John A]

what about odds with suited connectors pockets pairs i.e. getting 20/1 against effective stacks not immediate odds of calling the bet.

You're quantifying that EV saying, I think I can stack him X% of the time when I flop a set, and outplay him y% of the time when I whiff with my draw. That's why with small pairs, you'll call w/ smaller effective stacks with weaker players, and fold more liberally with larger effective stacks against decent regs - or you should be.

 

[rhombus]

You're quantifying that EV saying, I think I can stack him X% of the time when I flop a set, and outplay him y% of the time when I whiff with my draw. That's why with small pairs, you'll call w/ smaller effective stacks with weaker players, and fold more liberally with larger effective stacks against decent regs - or you should be.

I dont follow ??????? 15/2 to flop set thats why you normaly need about 20/1 to account for not getting paid if you hit.

That's why with small pairs, you'll call w/ smaller effective stacks with weaker players, Weaker players will pay you off when shallow or deep and fold more liberally with larger effective stacks against decent regs - or you should be
Why fold when effective stacks are deeper against decent regs - thought they were ideal to call with pocket pairs for good implied odds especially against tight regs even if you know they have AA

 

[or3o1990]

Revised list of poker goals for 2016

1) Hours/week
A:35 B:30 C:25

2) Mentor someone
A: start someone who is brand new to the game B:weekly sweat sessions
C: give regular feedback to those posting hands in the forum

3) Seek coaching
A: paid coaching B: weekly sweat sessions C: posting tough spots and talking theory in the forums

4) BR by 2017
A: 1000nl B: 500nl

A couple things I can do to make these goals a little more achievable: One is to start my first session of the day before 1pm and my second session before 6:30pm. Another is to make more of an effort here in the forums and with you all via skype.

 

[or3o1990]

I felt like this was an awesome spot to raise. I'm not getting a good price enough but I have a lot of equity and the board is pretty scary. Maybe I should have made it bigger though. I don't know what besides a 10 or 10xclubs he can 4bet me with here. In hindsight this guy was a reg so maybe I could have avoided tangling with him but a lot of hands should be finding a fold here, right?

PokerStars - $2 NL - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: 153.34 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 21)
CO: 55.9 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 19.05, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 21)
BTN: 110.1 BB (VPIP: 28.57, PFR: 19.05, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 21)
SB: 218.88 BB (VPIP: 19.05, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 21)
Hero (BB): 105.55 BB
UTG: 195.84 BB (VPIP: 28.57, PFR: 9.52, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 21)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 5:club: 4:club:

UTG raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, SB calls 2.5 BB, Hero calls 2 BB

Flop: (9 BB, 3 players) Q:diamond: K:club: 9:club:
SB bets 5 BB, Hero calls 5 BB, fold

Turn: (19 BB, 2 players) J:heart:
SB bets 11 BB, Hero raises to 24 BB, SB raises to 37 BB, Hero calls 13 BB

River: (93 BB, 2 players) 7:diamond:
SB raises to 173.88 BB and is all-in, fold

SB wins 91.5 BB