Playing poker like a robot?

NoWuckingFurries

NoWuckingFurries

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I'm a fairly inexperienced poker play, and when I first started playing (at the end of last year) I used betfair's Hold'em or Fold'em Tool quite a lot: Hold'em or Fold'em

Although I did find it very useful, there is inevitably a danger in always playing specific hands the same way, and I found one or two cases where I could have done with understanding why there were such big differences in how they rated hands which were - to my mind - fairly similar, or where their advice didn't really seem to work for me as well as I might have hoped. Time for some examples ;):

1. If you click on :ac4::2c4: it tells you
RANK: 34/169
Not the strongest of hands but is certainly playable and worth calling in early to mid position. As ever with a hand like this, caution is advised. Raise only from late position but beware the looming danger of a re-raise.
Obviously if I hit a flush I can make some money, but a straight requires 3/4/5 and usually ace-huggers will have a better kicker, so this hand doesn't do as well for me as I would like.

2. :as4::10d4:
RANK: 43/169
Nothing worth raising with from early position but this certainly has its place from late position. You should fold immediately though against a re-raise or a poor flop.
Is A10o really worth playing, it doesn't seem to win me a lot of money:questionm

3. :as4::9d4:
You really shouldn't be thinking about playing this unless...
Why is A9o so much worse than A10o:questionm

4. :jd4::ks4:
RANK:35/169
Not the strongest of hands but is certainly playable and worth calling in early to mid position. As ever with a hand like this, caution is advised. Raise only from late position but beware the looming danger of a re-raise.
I saw someone posting somewhere on this site a comment along the lines of JKo being a hand that n00bs tended to play...

Is this a useful tool for helping people to understand the relative value of starting hands, or is it encouraging people to place too much emphasis on the importance of hole cards, but not sufficiently emphasising the importance of position and aggression? :dontknow:

Also it doesn't differentiate between tournament and ring games - does this matter?
 
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Dewmz

Dewmz

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The difference between A9 and AT, is with AT you can make broadway.. A9 you'd be looking at a king high straight (if you made a straight) which in turn would technically make the 9 useless (cause you'd have broadway then.) If you made another straight..your ace wouldn't matter, and someone else playing 92 could have the same hand..

If that makes any sense..that's just how i see it.
 
Jillychemung

Jillychemung

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A2s only if I must play it.

I only play AT in late position if it's been checked around to me and I've had a chance to establish my tight image. If I have been pretty active (due to big hands) prior to this I will let it go even from the CO.


A9 again only if I must.

KJo only on the BTN if it has been checked to me.
 
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Khaosk

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Everyone has slightly different opinions on the value of starting hands. I would never limp in with A2s from early position.
 
D

danman7373

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I'd say you will miss out on a fair share of $ if you choose to never play these mediocre hands. However, if you are fairly new to poker, you will save yourself a lot of trouble folding these hands unless first to act in later position. The problem obviously arises when you flop top pair with your ace (or king/jack with KJ), can't get off it, and pay off someone with a higher kicker. The more experience you get, the easier it will be to throw away top pair if you encounter resistance, and the more you should open up your starting hand selection. A hand like AT or KJ can make you a lot of money when you flop broadway or top two because it is likely the board will have hit the other player well too - just use caution and be disciplined when the board hits you but not strongly.

One last thing, be careful with the A2s, you should be hoping for the flush or trip deuces, but be careful with a 345 flop, as you will run into a lot of people who like to play hands with sixes in them just on the off chance that they hit a 2345 board and get paid off big by a hand with an ace in it. I would not slowplay here with the bottom end and try to make it expensive for drawing hands.
 
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bustme

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This might work for tournies. But it will not work in most ring games.
 
NoWuckingFurries

NoWuckingFurries

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be careful with a 345 flop, as you will run into a lot of people who like to play hands with sixes in them just on the off chance that they hit a 2345 board and get paid off big by a hand with an ace in it.
I wonder if that's partly the reason why 6,9 suited is so popular with some of our members :questionm
 
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chipsdaily

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I like your inquiry

It seems that you are noticing some very important concepts about poker. It is very important for a player to have strong fundamentals in any game. Whether it be basketball, football, baseball or poker it doen't matter. Always learn the basics first! There is no question that knowing starting hand values is a fundamental part in poker, but you touched on some others. Position & aggression are two of them and I agree with you if we over emphasize starting hands it takes away from teaching us to play our opponent which is where the mastery of the game comes into play. You seem to be on the right track; continue to try and understand starting hand requirements but also make sure to pay close attention to your opponents. Try making some moves in some spots where you dont have it in order to get your senses to keen in on your competition. I would recommend reading a book on bluffs and the psychology of poker and that should help take your game to the next level. Ace rag is a bad hand even if it is suited. Make sure you are playing in a soft game and are getting a good price to play a hand like that, otherwise you could be just wasting bets. Ace rag includes A9 on down. AT is an improvement over A9 because of the ten. You can't make a staright in poker without a five or a ten. With that said though the ten doesnt make it a power house hand. Play it when you have postion on your opponents. That way you can proceed with draws when they are laying you the right price and steal when your opponents show weakness.
 
M

Manhattan Jack

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There really isn't a whole lot of difference in AT and A9 in my opinion, at least pre-flop. They're both playable from the same sorts of situations: Mainly steal-raises and blind defense. KJ is basically is a tad better than AT in my book. Steal and defend in the same situations, but it more playable in because:

1. In late position with a few callers, the straight potential makes it better
2. When yuo have a King high board, fewer top-pairs out-kick you and you're less likely to run into some one who hit his low kicker (a 5 hits on the river. A5 may be out there, but K5 rarely will be)
 
M

Manhattan Jack

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Everyone has slightly different opinions on the value of starting hands. I would never limp in with A2s from early position.

Never is a strong word here. I defenite play in games where the norm is for 6 or more people seeing the flop for no raise. I think A2s can be played here.
 
rob5775

rob5775

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Never is a strong word here. I defenite play in games where the norm is for 6 or more people seeing the flop for no raise. I think A2s can be played here.

Good answer. Its value also changes from ring to tourneys. If ABSOLUTELY no raises at table I'll limp with a crapload of hands(suited A, suited/unsuited connectors, etc).
 
1nickthegreek

1nickthegreek

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I purchased a set of hold em cards from GreatPokerHands.com, and it has helped me out quite a bit as far as keeping my pockets or mucking them.:D
 
PokerVic

PokerVic

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I purchased a set of hold em cards from GreatPokerHands.com, and it has helped me out quite a bit as far as keeping my pockets or mucking them.:D

I dunno. There's something about that site that I find appealing, but I can't put my finger on it. (more's the pity)

The TV spot is definitely worth a watch. :)
 
L

Ldpokercj5

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You would definitely need to play a more variety of hands and play and/or Raise once in awhile with those mediocre hands to through your opponents off. Also Changing gears wouldn't be a bad idea since that is a very time form right there why not change it up sometimes and go more LAG than re-tighten up repeat. You will notice you will make more money when you can play a more unpredictable game and not stick to playing a few sets of hands.
 
dj11

dj11

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Good OP NWF.

Dealing with any hands that are non premium is where the majority of poker is played. It is the premium hands, and the premium hands vs premium hands that get the majority of the 'press'. Tabloid poker.

But when and where to play less than premium hands is where most of us play, most of the time.

IMO the ability to play the NPH's (non premium hands) is always conditional;

-You need to believe you can avoid chasing draws at unacceptable odds.

-You need to believe you can lay down decent holdings.

-You need to have shown the ability to bluff. Not so much that you have shown a bluff to the other players at your table, but more to ourselves. By and large, much of the time I have no 'bluff blood' in my veins. Oddly I almost always have at least some kleptomaniac blood (stealing) coursing through those veins.

-You MUST understand position.

-You should have a good read on the players at your table, or at bare minimum, believe you have a good read on them.

-You should be aware of your current table image. ***** Much harder than you might think. I consider myself primarily tAG and I believe there are more than a few members here who would gag on my own self-description.

-You should have a fair to better notion of EV. And in tourney play some awareness of ICM.

Of course the better at each of these you become, the better you are likely to succeed. I added several ideas here with the notion of believing in yourself, which will come mainly from the experience and self-education (books, articles, forum posts) that you expose yourself to.
 
bluesboy47

bluesboy47

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The problem with most of these hands are they are likely to be second best. There are too many hands that can beat them. That said everything is situational/positional. Playing these hands in early or even mid position you can get trapped if you raise and get reraised. Are you willing to invest more money with a hand that will most likely come in second. A problem with A2 suited besides not hitting the nut flush is hitting the A-5 straight. You are on the idiot end and will be beaten by anyone with a 6. If you are going to play them best to play them in late position. If you want to play them in an earlier postion then I suggest limping in and bailing out if there is a substantial raise.
 
NoWuckingFurries

NoWuckingFurries

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Quality posts are a bit like buses - there are none for ages, then two come along together! :D
 
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