Playing lots of pots. Ideal VPIP?

[Dobbler1]

I'm curious what people think on this subject. My limited observation is that there are three obviously exploitable types of players out there. Maniacs, which can make a person sweat a bit, but are ultimately super profitable, calling stations, which are way less stress as long as you don't try to run bluffs on them, and nits.

The best players tend to see lots of pots. Now obviously I'm not playing at the same level as them. I try to have a general understanding of GTO, but I really lean into playing a maximally exploitative game. Here's the main point though. Doesn't playing more pots reveal exploitable tendencies?

For example, I had a guy on my immediate right who limped with all cards (strong and weak) and literally played every pot (except a few while he reloaded when he busted). It threw lots of players for a loop, me included at first, because you couldn't range him at all. He could literally have any two cards. He took lots of decent sized pots on uncoordinated boards with weird 2-pairs like eights and threes. Honestly, I just changed my preflop raising and 3 betting to being entirely linear in bet size, and with premium preflop hands, would raise 40 or 50 BB (yes, he called those too). That eventually busted him.

Anyway, the point is, once I understood his preflop pattern, it took a minute to think through how to exploit it, but it was obviously super-exploitable. I've seen people suggest that a VPIP as low as 20 is ideal, but that strikes me as excessively tight. I tend to be over 25 but under 30 (I mostly play 6max). I'm personally comfortable in that range. As per my last example, a high VPIP is hard to range, but it's exploitable. A low VPIP is super easy to range. So what's the ideal VPIP, all things considered?

 

[Markjduk]

I think it depends on the stakes. If you use Pojker TRacker or something similar you should be able to find out what VPIP level you are most profitable at. For 6 Max I win most often when my VPIP is between 17 - 22

 

[Dobbler1]

I think it depends on the stakes. If you use Pojker TRacker or something similar you should be able to find out what VPIP level you are most profitable at. For 6 Max I win most often when my VPIP is between 17 - 22

Depends on stakes because of level of competition? Or is there something else I'm missing?

 

[Station_Master]

Is this tournament or cash and how many players? Generally speaking your vpip should be higher the fewer people are sat at the table and the more dead money is in the pot (I.e. antes). Stakes shouldn't matter too much though in theory you can loosen up a tiny bit at higher stakes as rake should be lower. Also at lower stakes you can get away with a low vpip as weaker players wont always notice you are only playing premiums

 

[Normino]

I did not renew my hud when I first got it my vpip was low and video instruction I watched said something about an ideal number of vpip which caused my too play more hands i wouldnt too get the number up and Results were terrible for me.. I Just play wthout one now and do much better playing a lower vpip and on gut instincts..

 

[Dobbler1]

Is this tournament or cash and how many players? Generally speaking your vpip should be higher the fewer people are sat at the table and the more dead money is in the pot (I.e. antes). Stakes shouldn't matter too much though in theory you can loosen up a tiny bit at higher stakes as rake should be lower. Also at lower stakes you can get away with a low vpip as weaker players wont always notice you are only playing premiums

Cash 6Max.

 

[Station_Master]

Probably want a vpip of about 20% then and pfr of 16% or so

 

[Dobbler1]

Probably want a vpip of about 20% then and pfr of 16% or so

Ok, why? Doesn't a VPIP that low make it easier to range you?

 

[Station_Master]

It's still a wide range of hands but not playing junk and not overcalling too much. E.g. from button still playing 40% or more of hands but only if it folds round to you. But LJ maybe only 14%. From blinds not defending too wide.

 

[Dobbler1]

It's still a wide range of hands but not playing junk and not overcalling too much. E.g. from button still playing 40% or more of hands but only if it folds round to you. But LJ maybe only 14%. From blinds not defending too wide.

You think that's the objectively correct range, or just what works for you?

 

[Station_Master]

Yes based on charts more or less. I looked at a few and went with something broadly combining them, maybe it's slightly on the tight side as I normally play 9max. I think anything up to 25 vpip is fine maybe even 30 as long as you play well post flop. It also depends how much you get 3bet, so who is left to act, and competent players will notice if you have a high vpip and 3bet you more forcing you to fold or defend too wide. If you play in games where you dont get 3bet much you can open wider

 

[xOneCoolHandx]

It depends on the dynamics of the game. I see nothing wrong with VPIP of 20-25 in a low to medium stakes 6 handed game where the other players are bound to be playing wide ranges. The biggest caveat is how well do you play postflop and how well you can read your opponents hands. When you get to playing higher stakes, this VPIP is way to high and you are going to run into more players playing a much more solid range and who also play very well postflop. I would stay in around 18-20 at this level but it depends on those I am playing. You watch the card rooms live streams and you see players playing ridiculous amounts of hands and starting hands. If I am in that game, I am mixing it up. LOL

 

[Dobbler1]

It depends on the dynamics of the game. I see nothing wrong with VPIP of 20-25 in a low to medium stakes 6 handed game where the other players are bound to be playing wide ranges.

Wouldn't you want to play tighter against a bunch of loose opponents, and vice versa? Isn't that the conventional wisdom?

 

[thebigjhow]

Interesting placement. But I believe it is a valid strategy. It is generally thought of as medium to long term poker, and getting involved in several pots "Neganu style" is a "new" method, shall we say, that people have been trying. And that does not bring this profitability to "traditional" deadlines.

 

[Ripelnet]

I avoid gaps mayores than 5
maximum vpip of 20

 

[Ripelnet]

I avoid gaps greater than 5
maximum vpip or 20

 

[CaptainMooti]

I like to keep it unpredictable and change my styles of play. Depends on format where I prefer tournaments. At start you should have like 30%vpip and towards later stages it should drop somewhere to 15-20% as you ladder up the payouts. Hope this helps.

 

[Gutshot Gus]

I did not renew my hud when I first got it my vpip was low and video instruction I watched said something about an ideal number of vpip which caused my too play more hands i wouldnt too get the number up and Results were terrible for me.. I Just play wthout one now and do much better playing a lower vpip and on gut instincts..

Why didn't you just say that you are so tight that it's no use to even try to spell VPIP?
Dang that boy ain't right.

 

[MikeCarasone]

17-20 vpip is ideal. Playing too Many hands will be exploited By good players.

 

[Dobbler1]

17-20 vpip is ideal. Playing too Many hands will be exploited By good players.

Can you be more specific? Am I mistaken when I say that some of the best, world class players have quite high VPIP in deep stack cash games? Why do you believe that range is ideal? How is a higher VPIP exploited by good players?

 

[cidul]

I think you should adapt your game according to the table and who you play against

 

[Recreationalplayer]

I think 25 - 30% VPIP is ideal. If you have a post flop edge, more than 30% is also good.

 

[Ripelnet]

below 14% is very safe and avoid surprises

 

[pavel1111111]

it is all depends on what kind of players you have on the table and how many BB you have , if you have a big stack i supose you could try and play more hands...

 

[victorem]

I'm curious what people think on this subject. My limited observation is that there are three obviously exploitable types of players out there. Maniacs, which can make a person sweat a bit, but are ultimately super profitable, calling stations, which are way less stress as long as you don't try to run bluffs on them, and nits.

The best players tend to see lots of pots. Now obviously I'm not playing at the same level as them. I try to have a general understanding of GTO, but I really lean into playing a maximally exploitative game. Here's the main point though. Doesn't playing more pots reveal exploitable tendencies?

For example, I had a guy on my immediate right who limped with all cards (strong and weak) and literally played every pot (except a few while he reloaded when he busted). It threw lots of players for a loop, me included at first, because you couldn't range him at all. He could literally have any two cards. He took lots of decent sized pots on uncoordinated boards with weird 2-pairs like eights and threes. Honestly, I just changed my preflop raising and 3 betting to being entirely linear in bet size, and with premium preflop hands, would raise 40 or 50 BB (yes, he called those too). That eventually busted him.

Anyway, the point is, once I understood his preflop pattern, it took a minute to think through how to exploit it, but it was obviously super-exploitable. I've seen people suggest that a VPIP as low as 20 is ideal, but that strikes me as excessively tight. I tend to be over 25 but under 30 (I mostly play 6max). I'm personally comfortable in that range. As per my last example, a high VPIP is hard to range, but it's exploitable. A low VPIP is super easy to range. So what's the ideal VPIP, all things considered?

For 6max, it's normal to have vpp up to 30.
27-28 is good.
In my opinion, what pfr the opponent has is more important.
Other statistics are equally important.
How passive is opp on all streets.
People who call a lot also bluff.
It is difficult to navigate on a small sample.
In my opinion, 30/20 stats are not bad, but you need to be able to use them correctly. Don't call in open positions, 3bet moderately a lot, and don't limp.
Naturally, the limit at which you play is very important.
The rake is incredibly high at the micros, so the best option is to stick to a tight strategy and have 22-24/17-18 stats.
Again, this is my opinion.