Never limp, always raise/fold.........even at 1/2 live casino no limit?
kissapig
Rock Star
Silver Level
A limp from the button, late in a tournament (near the bubble), when the action has folded to the button. This would be a limp to induce a raise, yes? The SB is put in a position to raise/fold and if SB folds (sensing strength) then BB normally would check to see a flop. Flop comes and BB check folds to a minraise. All based on prior action of an aggressive table which is normally the case when near the bubble. I think this would be an appropriate time to limp/fold preflop and minraise/fold to a reraise postflop. Thoughts on this move?
A
Annie Tiuzootd
Rising Star
Bronze Level
It's a LimpFest
I play live cash at the Casino. These days at 1/2 blinds, about 85% of the pots are limped. Even if you raise 8 times the BB, they all call. These games are a mix of Poker and Bingo. You raise with AA.....say 12x the BB....they call with Ax o/s...
Any two suited... any 2 cards....you have 5 callers....your Aces are dead in the water.
Next hand you get KK in the big blind. It's limped around to you. You announce " All in" ($650). They all fold, giving you a filthy look, and smirking to each other - wondering what sort of fish would do that ?
I play live cash at the Casino. These days at 1/2 blinds, about 85% of the pots are limped. Even if you raise 8 times the BB, they all call. These games are a mix of Poker and Bingo. You raise with AA.....say 12x the BB....they call with Ax o/s...
Any two suited... any 2 cards....you have 5 callers....your Aces are dead in the water.
Next hand you get KK in the big blind. It's limped around to you. You announce " All in" ($650). They all fold, giving you a filthy look, and smirking to each other - wondering what sort of fish would do that ?
IPlay
Bum hunts 25NL
Silver Level
Do not limp the hands that are bolded.......... You are going to burn money and get coolered by bigger flushes.
Even if all 7 players limped in and I am in the SB with 32s I am not putting in another dollar to see a flop.
S
StorkBoy
Rock Star
Silver Level
Limping is a problem because a lot of loos players will limp with anything that they have(93o), it's cheep and if they are so lucky to hit flop 9-A-3 they will make strong hand and next move it will be all-in against any bet.
So limping is not options.
But, what to do with speculative hands when you faced with raising in front of you. That is right question if you ask me.
For speculative hands, as mention in the post, I use a rule 3-6 and 5-10, which I read in Kill Everyone by Lee Nelson. The rule is the following.
The Rule 3-6:
Low suited connectors (32s-T9s), Low suited one-gapers (75s-J9s) and Low suited aces (A2s-A9s) I will pay max 3-6% of my stack. And if I hit the trips on flop with 3s or some good drew you have chance to beat someone who can't resist to his love with KK or AA and take all his stack.
If I am in MP and I faced with raise I will pay 3% of my stack and in LP I will pay to 6% max. Everything between depends how much you like your hand and reading of your opponents, everything above is fold.
The Rule 5-10:
This rule I use for Low pocket pairs (22-88). Same thing like in rule 3-6 just other percentage of use and it is 5 to 10% of your stack. If you hit a set it will likely win you big pots.
Also, there is rule "Call 20" and that is to be sure that you and your opponents have big enough stack to make the call worthwhile. If you and opponents have 20 times the raise amount in your stacks, the call is worthwhile and go for it.
It is very effective at the beginning of the game, they all have a big stack and with small investment you can make a big hit. Also, that will confuse your opponents when you make same raise or call of raise with monster hand.
So limping is not options.
But, what to do with speculative hands when you faced with raising in front of you. That is right question if you ask me.
For speculative hands, as mention in the post, I use a rule 3-6 and 5-10, which I read in Kill Everyone by Lee Nelson. The rule is the following.
The Rule 3-6:
Low suited connectors (32s-T9s), Low suited one-gapers (75s-J9s) and Low suited aces (A2s-A9s) I will pay max 3-6% of my stack. And if I hit the trips on flop with 3s or some good drew you have chance to beat someone who can't resist to his love with KK or AA and take all his stack.
If I am in MP and I faced with raise I will pay 3% of my stack and in LP I will pay to 6% max. Everything between depends how much you like your hand and reading of your opponents, everything above is fold.
The Rule 5-10:
This rule I use for Low pocket pairs (22-88). Same thing like in rule 3-6 just other percentage of use and it is 5 to 10% of your stack. If you hit a set it will likely win you big pots.
Also, there is rule "Call 20" and that is to be sure that you and your opponents have big enough stack to make the call worthwhile. If you and opponents have 20 times the raise amount in your stacks, the call is worthwhile and go for it.
It is very effective at the beginning of the game, they all have a big stack and with small investment you can make a big hit. Also, that will confuse your opponents when you make same raise or call of raise with monster hand.
NateVest
Visionary
Silver Level
This approach seems very logical and if played straight forward, could potentially be profitable in the long run. I like playing these moderate or speculative hands since they can sometimes turn into monsters. These scenarios like a lot of other spots in poker are very situation dependent like position, chip stack, opponents, etc.
IPlay
Bum hunts 25NL
Silver Level
In the book this rule is applied to blind stealing in the beginning of tournaments while deep stacked.
A
Annie Tiuzootd
Rising Star
Bronze Level
Poker is the sickest of all the card games
I started 5 yrs ago. I was a fish. Now I am an "intermediate" player.
I have learned a lot, and there's still more to learn of course.
But...can I tell ya ? These days, the better I play...the more I lose.
I have a friend, a grinder, a pro for the past 6 yrs. This year he lost his whole bank, and hasn't been sighted for 8 months. Good guy, good player, it was a bummer to see him cop that amount of variance for such a long downswing. Now I'm out in sympathy, I reckon I'm beat no matter what...my own downswing is playing with my head. I will take a rest..but ...geez....get it in good..and get beat !!! ( 8 weeks now) this game is sick.
I started 5 yrs ago. I was a fish. Now I am an "intermediate" player.I have learned a lot, and there's still more to learn of course.
But...can I tell ya ? These days, the better I play...the more I lose.
I have a friend, a grinder, a pro for the past 6 yrs. This year he lost his whole bank, and hasn't been sighted for 8 months. Good guy, good player, it was a bummer to see him cop that amount of variance for such a long downswing. Now I'm out in sympathy, I reckon I'm beat no matter what...my own downswing is playing with my head. I will take a rest..but ...geez....get it in good..and get beat !!! ( 8 weeks now) this game is sick.
N
nidal55
Rock Star
Silver Level
in games where a 10x raise wont do much being nitty is the way but loosing the opportunity for many postflop spots w terradonks is a mistake. being nitty is ok but being creative looking for blood in every spot will make u tons. if i am to play w an old lady i will raise 93s or limp or whatever its just +ev. care about the field and the reads not a chart.
look at the dynamics: u can raise a millionx to isolate w a marginal like kts oop and risk ur stack every hand. or u can wait for mr paps to hit w his k3 or blabla suited and loose $400. valubet hard, raise hard, dominate a field that thinks a flush beats a fullhouse. ve been playing live for years. dont overestimate them dont look for AA. aces are rare and will crack w 6 callers. look for spots.
if table is aggro yes reduce limping. but dont give them the joy to get rid of u every hand. ull see em stacking w air and cry:'' why im not in this hand, god'' and loose after 3 hands w rockets and cry again: '' im so unlucky''. if u can valuebet properly almost every hand can be profitable.
gl at the tables
look at the dynamics: u can raise a millionx to isolate w a marginal like kts oop and risk ur stack every hand. or u can wait for mr paps to hit w his k3 or blabla suited and loose $400. valubet hard, raise hard, dominate a field that thinks a flush beats a fullhouse. ve been playing live for years. dont overestimate them dont look for AA. aces are rare and will crack w 6 callers. look for spots.
if table is aggro yes reduce limping. but dont give them the joy to get rid of u every hand. ull see em stacking w air and cry:'' why im not in this hand, god'' and loose after 3 hands w rockets and cry again: '' im so unlucky''. if u can valuebet properly almost every hand can be profitable.
gl at the tables
M
mikeisanace
Enthusiast
Silver Level
I play mostly 3/6,but occasional 1/3 or 1/2 and it's mostly good to limp in limit and raise about the min in no limit. The idea is to minimize risk and maximize return. You see in limit there is 8-9 players on the table with 5-7 players in the pot. If I'm first to ac't I either raise or limp re raise the whole table with aa-kk-qq-jj. Any other cards including ak I will limp and call another 3 bucks if raised. The flop tells all.. Then on the later streets I maximize my raises when it all connects. In no limit say 1/2 I raise to 4-5 bucks no more at all times to initiate a 3 to 4 way pot with some hand ranges. The idea is it's a trap itself you have 5-6 off raise 4 pocket Aces raise 4 then flat call, re raise all in to a big raise with aces and fold 5-6 off. You risk less and hit bigger when someone shoves all in with your set or huge overpair vs a bluff,2 pair draw etc.. In limit if you raise it up some donkey will re raise your aq or jj then someone else caps with stupid hands and one other legitimate hand and they draw out on you when you flop q-j-9-84 or 25673 when jacks looked great!! It's sort of a weak tight start int both games then tight aggressive later on 4th street and the river or all in pre flop sometimes in no limit. The higher the limit the more raising pre flop is needed 10-20 limit 5-10 no limit look to bet strong and reraise with ak-qq-10-10 in position then take pots down or trap..You take down stacks heads up in nl while protecting your hand from multiway pot's and taking other peoples stacks where in limit it's usually mutliway and it's best to see cheap flops. Another good thing to realize is in nl limping utg with ak-56 suited and k-10 is a good thing because players will be confused about your range whereas everyother time your raise 5 bucks then limp in they will pay you off because they won't think you would limp in with ak ehn you raised 5 bucks with j-10 suited.
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psychomethod
Rising Star
Silver Level
it depends on how loose is the table. if some of the players raises lots of hand then limping isnt your best choice as you will be forced to call at least 3 times the bb to stay on the hand, however especially in late positions if no one enters or raises I dont see anything wrong with limping and watching a cheap flop. if you hit a monster like a set or straight, or a good draw, you will possible make lot of money, and if you dont hit anything just fold the hand, and wait for a better flop.
J
jones6
Rising Star
Bronze Level
Limping with drawing hands...
The way I always got it was it's perfectly okay to limp but for no more than 5% of your stack, only in late position (in the case of flush cards or connectors), if and only if you're convinced there'll be no re-raises behind you. 5% has to be where you stop, however, because anything more will not allow for pot-sized betting (or calling) post-flop, should you wish or need either to bet or raise your set, flush, or straight, or call to try making one of the latter two. Absent that, the implied odds just won't there for this if there's all this betting pre-flop to eat up the money you're shooting for. Limping's neither inherently good, nor inherently bad, but must be used with discretion.
The way I always got it was it's perfectly okay to limp but for no more than 5% of your stack, only in late position (in the case of flush cards or connectors), if and only if you're convinced there'll be no re-raises behind you. 5% has to be where you stop, however, because anything more will not allow for pot-sized betting (or calling) post-flop, should you wish or need either to bet or raise your set, flush, or straight, or call to try making one of the latter two. Absent that, the implied odds just won't there for this if there's all this betting pre-flop to eat up the money you're shooting for. Limping's neither inherently good, nor inherently bad, but must be used with discretion.
C
ChuckNola
Rock Star
Silver Level
I'm either calling an open raise, 3 betting an open raise, making an open raise or folding. There's no option for a limp. Just because the local casino is flooded with limp biscuits doesn't mean that you should adjust your style to copy them.
D
donkcentralFF
Visionary
Silver Level
All depends on villians.. If your playing at a table where players are constantly raising for you... Why would you raise your hnds when UTG/ UTG +1... The key is too trap the guy who raises light than calls your reraise from early position.. Think the key is too change it up and not be so predictable.. So many times I'm just raising in position to build a pot up with speculative hands.. Bex if the players will call with anything those speculative hands can easily net you a big gain
Z
ZingyT
Rock Star
Silver Level
The biggest threat from limping is allowing the BB to see the flop with any 2 cards.
This makes a read on the BB play impossible since he was already in for free. You have A/9, he has 10/2 and the board is A,10,2 your gunna pay out.
This is the primary reason to at LEAST min raise (which still gives the BB GREAT odds to call) but most quality players refuse to invest ANYTHING in bottom 40% hands, so keeps you safe a little bit.
This makes a read on the BB play impossible since he was already in for free. You have A/9, he has 10/2 and the board is A,10,2 your gunna pay out.
This is the primary reason to at LEAST min raise (which still gives the BB GREAT odds to call) but most quality players refuse to invest ANYTHING in bottom 40% hands, so keeps you safe a little bit.
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PKRNRS
Visionary
Silver Level
Everyone will say that limping is not the thing to do and that you should be aggressive and raise every time your in the pot. But truth is that you have to have a feel for the table. If your getting a lot of limpers every hand then your big hands can get a lot smaller. If you're only raising with big hands I will always bet you that the table will pick up on it. Learn to adjust. If passive then go aggressive, if maniacs at the table then go passive and wait. If you're limping with scared money then stay home.