Microstakes Cash: Ways to Improve

[Cafeman]

That's a bit strong Aleksei, of course villain can have a flush here. At the very least our equity is a bit sketchy when he raises turn. We're OOP, so folding is totally fine.


EDIT: Ah, I see why you are so stroppy about it, cos Matt said x/f turn. Meh, I b/f, but to say villain never has flushes is still incorrect imo.

 

[Aleksei]

That's a bit strong Aleksei, of course villain can have a flush here. At the very least our equity is a bit sketchy when he raises turn. We're OOP, so folding is totally fine.


EDIT: Ah, I see why you are so stroppy about it, cos Matt said x/f turn. Meh, I b/f, but to say villain never has flushes is still incorrect imo.

Obviously he can't never have flushes; my point is he has them so rarely that we might as well assume as much and b/f all 3 as if there was no 3-flush on the board. If he has a flush he will usually do what he just did and raise, just like he would if the turn was a random brick and he stumbled upon 2-pair or a set.

 

[Aleksei]

*googles "stroppy"*

Never heard that word before. I love it.

 

[coelho2013]

possible that the value for min interest not right now but playing solidly with a bankrool short and difficult and not always take correct decisions, maybe I should not so loose a little more Taight would be a great option.

 

[Yoshimiii]

Thanks for the feedback.



Interesting. Never thought of it this way. Was actually min-raising because I knew they would call whatever and then I would lose money if I miss. But what you say about getting money in when I'm ahead makes sense.

Doesnt really matter if ur ahead pf actually (although it ovbiously helps) because u have position and can outplay the fish, so even if your 30/70 underdog it's still + ev with ur entire raising range to open bigger. Also if fish are in the blinds I open my raising range from all positions (apart from utg) as I want to play pots with them in position.

I can see what your saying by raising small you invest less when you miss against the fish but this small fact is outwayed by the massive positives of raising big pf to stack the fish later when u hit.

 

[Yoshimiii]

Well... completing a flush on a 3-flush board requires hands that form very very tiny number of combos, because for any two suited hole cards they have to be of one specific suit. So for example, on a 987 board there are 48 combos of the 3 hands that complete the straight, but on a 3-flush board there are a grand total of 45 combos that complete the flush, and that's counting every single last flush that's possible on that board. It just takes an opponent having four offsuited top pairs (12 combos each) to outnumber flushes, and a fish will call down with over a dozen pair hands; including second and third pairs and worse.

Therefore, it is fairly safe to assume that unless he has shown aggression (or the board is 4-flush) a call station does not have a ****ing flush. Ever. If you can barrel down TPMK for value because your villain is a fish in a dry board, you sure as shit can still do it in a 3-flush board. Check-folding is just murdering your own value.

Yes it is unlikely for a random hand to be dealt to a player to have suited cards and make a flush on the board, however once the fish raises it (also min raises are rarely bluffs) the chance of the fish (also likely a passive fish) having a flush just increased dramatically. Imo the fish has the flush here too often to call or 2 pair at least.

I don't agree with c/f but b/f is slightly better than b/c and folding river IMO.

 

[NateVest]

I've been playing for a while now and playing 10nl for the last couple of months. I've also been reviewing hand histories, making notes, reading books, watching videos and following the Poker Zion Roots course. I think I've improved a bit but my win-rate is very very small - just about breakeven.

One of the things I do is try to practise a concept during the week - eg, playing OOP or playing draws. But I find that by doing so I make more mistakes. I'm trying to put new ideas into practice and don't always make the right decisions. Do you more experienced players think this is a valuable thing to do in the long run while I am playing such low stakes as I will learn faster or do you think I should stick to playing tight ABC poker?

I call too much IP as a way to practise post flop play and hand reading but obviously I am not very good yet. My stats look very weird - I am winning at about 35bb/100 in EP/MP/CO but losing at -7bb/100 on the BTN! I am always cold calling on the button with marginal hands to get experience of playing IP but suck at it. Probably calling too much in BB too. Seems like chicken and egg - how can I learn and get better at post flop if I play really tight and don't get into marginal spots?

There are a couple other variables like the reads on your opponent, chip stacks, etc. that could factor into play here. I definitely encourage you to save hand history for any coaching and post hands to get more feedback from forum members. It is much easier to give a player advice when you can see the actual hand history, I think the best practice however, is actually playing the game. I have read books and feel that it opened my eyes to strategies but ultimately have gained confidence and skill in my game through playing.

 

[ScottishMatt]

Well... completing a flush on a 3-flush board requires hands that form very very tiny number of combos, because for any two suited hole cards they have to be of one specific suit. So for example, on a 987 board there are 48 combos of the 3 hands that complete the straight, but on a 3-flush board there are a grand total of 45 combos that complete the flush, and that's counting every single last flush that's possible on that board. It just takes an opponent having four offsuited top pairs (12 combos each) to outnumber flushes, and a fish will call down with over a dozen pair hands; including second and third pairs and worse.

Therefore, it is fairly safe to assume that unless he has shown aggression (or the board is 4-flush) a call station does not have a ****ing flush. Ever. If you can barrel down TPMK for value because your villain is a fish in a dry board, you sure as shit can still do it in a 3-flush board. Check-folding is just murdering your own value.

So a large part of your argument is based upon tripling for value here? If we aren't going to fire a non spade river then your plan for the hand just doesn't make any sense.

Well I'm not sure about you but I don't want to be tripling OOP with TPMK on a 3-flush board vs a loose-passive.

 

[Aleksei]

Yes it is unlikely for a random hand to be dealt to a player to have suited cards and make a flush on the board, however once the fish raises it (also min raises are rarely bluffs) the chance of the fish (also likely a passive fish) having a flush just increased dramatically.

I think you misinterpreted what I said.

A fish has a flush really really rarely but when he does have a flush he will raise, just like he will when he lands a random 2-pair/set/whatever.

Ergo, my plan against a fish on a 3-flush board is exactly the same as my plan against a fish on a Sahara-dry board: Bet/fold all 3 streets. The idea that Honey should give up that spot and x/f because the flush showed up is nitty beyond reason. Matt has this tendency to see ghosts in every board and that just drives me up the wall.

 

[ScottishMatt]

It has nothing to do with the flush showing up. I don't think we can extract three streets of value here. With that in mind I prefer flop+river, and the reason to X/F the turn is that a passive player won't fire (for a decent size) worse. Being scared of the board has absolutely **** all to do with it. I think you value bet too thinly is what this comes down to. Then again competition is different at every site, you don't play on Stars do you?

 

[coelho2013]

I suppose in your case does not have much output, remove the value NL10 store up to 100 Nl have enough discipline to get up to this value.

 

[Cafeman]

Yo coel, I was just thinking that too, what are the chances!?

 

[Aleksei]

It has nothing to do with the flush showing up. I don't think we can extract three streets of value here.

I honestly think we can. Villain seems pretty bad and like the kind of guy who'll call down 2nd, 3rd pair and worse. I doubt he'll fold Jx to a third barrel which gives us ample equity to extract value here (if he can have Jx then the 3-flush makes our equity deteriorate a whopping 15%-ish, from 75 to 60).

Also no, I don't play Stars -- I'm not allowed first and foremost, and also Stars cash games are (from what I've picked up off post-BF reviews and railing the site) some of the toughest/nittiest around.