Making a Set on a Scary Flop

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drawingneardead

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I am hoping to discuss postflop play after making a set, particularly on a flop with connected cards &/or 2 suits.

I have noticed that most pros play this situation faster than I do, and I am wondering if I am taking abnormally high risk.

I have typically been inclined to allow opponents to draw against me when I flop a set. After messing around with the hand evaluator on Poker Academy Pro software, (like 2 years ago)...

...I came to the conclusion that drawing to a boat from a set had better event odds than a flush draw or straight draw. Also that the draw can take outs away from a flush draw and recoups some of it's mathematical value after missing on the turn (another board card to pair up)

Has anyone run those numbers? Mind sharing?

Also wondering how some of you play a flopped set (from a PP). I love to check-call from OOP and almost never raise a bet on the flop even with a flop that could be loaded with potential draws. Should I defend a flopped set more aggressively?

It seems the only time I play it fast is when I see a 3 card straight combination or 3 to a flush, in which case I have to let go when facing a big reraise.

What do you guys think??
 
Dwilius

Dwilius

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I'm more likely to play it slow on the 3 to a flush flop than a definite draw flop. I might get someone to slowplay their way out of the nuts, instead of being forced to fold. I like to build a draw pot and end it on a blank turn if possible.
 
kingme620

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I think its generally accepted that the more scary the flop, the more aggressive you should play your set.
 
Dwilius

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BTW i try to build the pot enough to be worthwhile but not enough to price a draw into calling the turn. I hope to only get called by top pr or 2 pr in a tournament. In a ring game i guess being called by a severely price out player pays in long run (can be stressful when they suck out)
 
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drawingneardead

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I think its generally accepted that the more scary the flop, the more aggressive you should play your set.

Right. I am just not sure it makes sense to price out opponents who are likely drawing or to reveal the strength of your hand by reraising on the flop or on a blank turn.
 
Joe Slick

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Right. I am just not sure it makes sense to price out opponents who are likely drawing or to reveal the strength of your hand by reraising on the flop or on a blank turn.

In a situation like that I think you want to price your opponents out. If you think the board is scary here, there are two more cards coming that can make it a whole lot scarier.

There are a lot of variables here - position, pot size, bets ahead of you, the size of your stack, etc. If the bet gets around to me and there haven't been any extraordinary raises and if it makes sense relative to my stack and the pot size, I might be inclined to believe I have the best hand and try to take the pot down. I don't want any opponents and I don't want to assume that my set is going to turn into a full house.

On the other hand, if I decide to take a more passive approach, I will have no problem folding my set to someone who seems to like the board better than I do.
 
pokertime911

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you bet hard because your opponent will call pretty much anything with a flush draw and even open ended str8 draw
 
scorpione

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I find myself in this dangerous situation almost everytime I flop a set :(:p

I think that if you play aggressive in low limits or freerolls you are called anyway, I'm still not sure what is the best way to play this situation... :confused:
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Since you guys seem to have some many problems playing sets, here's my guide to playing them:

So you've made a set! Congratulations! Now, here's how you should play it:

1) Is there a 4-flush on the board? 4-straight? Trips on the board higher than your set?

2) If you answered no to all of these questions, bet until all the money is in the middle of the table.
 
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andybee

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Since you guys seem to have some many problems playing sets, here's my guide to playing them:

So you've made a set! Congratulations! Now, here's how you should play it:

1) Is there a 4-flush on the board? 4-straight? Trips on the board higher than your set?

2) If you answered no to all of these questions, bet until all the money is in the middle of the table.

not sure thats the answer

you need to know your table

if there all callers bet hard

andy bee
 
rwilson

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I generally won't slow play a set ever.. especially if there's draws out on the board. If there are players on a draw they'll call your bet so why give them a free card? Sometimes (fairly rarely) I might check the turn to make the flop bet look like a c-bet or bluff, but usually I just play the hand. If the board is particularly drawy the hardest part is working out how much to bet.. you want to keep the players on draws in the hand, especially when they could be drawing to less outs than they think they have (i.e one of their flush cards could pair the board). You just want to slightly outprice them, so they're in a situation where they're drawing against the odds, but it's too tempting to fold. If the turn comes up blank and you're confident they are drawing to a flush (for example), then you can pump the pot.

But like everything else in poker, it all depends on who you're playing against as well.
 
BrentD22

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Funny I see this post now. I just flopped a set vs. a 3 flush on the board. AdKd7d I was UTG and raised to 90 (3XBB) and the BB was the only player to call. He has Qd3d. He checked, I bet 90, he raised to 300, and then I called. The turn and river where not d's and did not pair the board he bet out 700 on the river so I had now choice I really felt he was on a draw so I went all-in for another 2000 on top. BAD CHOICE. He took about 45 seconds to decide and then finally called with Qd3d.

I said why the fing slow roll man, you had the nuts? He said he was scared I flopped a set and didn't want to look stupid. The chat erupted into DONK this and DONK that cause the retard didn't even know that a flush (the nut flush) neats a friggin set. WOW - then I asked him why he called pre-flop with Qd3d when I showed stregnth with my 3XBB raise (i don't think he any idea what I was talking about) he said I thought you where trying to steal (he really said get) my blind.

If that was a home game I could have simply said to him that a set beats a flush sorry go home. He would have never known the difference.
 
dj11

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My understanding is that at the flop, the odds of the board pairing at in the same neighborhood as filling a flush or str8 by the river. All 3 at that point are gonna complete in the 22-25% of the time range. Means about 25% of the time if 3 players are in, each going one of those hands, no one will catch.

The huge difference is that at that particular point you know you are very very likely to be holding the only set on the table. If someone hit a higher set, well, thats a place you can sigh and say "thats poker', but I stopped slow playing sets to scary boards a while ago. Bet out, try to remember not to give villains 4 to 1 odds making it worthwhile for them to call. a 1/2 pot bet with only one taker is giving 3-1 odds, and with 2 takers the implied odds can be 4-1.

Pot sized bet gives the first taker only 2-1 odds, not good and he should fold if he is aware of odds at all. If he calls, 2nd taker is getting 3-1 odds, still not correct odds to call.

If your villains have no clue about the odds, (and that seems the case all too often) then no bet will stop them:(
 
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