BelFish
Legend
Loyaler
You can tip the dealer at 1 cent in each hand )))
Collin Moshman
Poker Expert
Silver Level
In areas where dealers count on the tips as part of their wages, it's very nice to make a habit of tipping. Like others have said, if you win the hand pre-flop or take down a small pot at the flop (such as raise pre, get called, c-bet and win) then I wouldn't tip. But at least $1 for any moderate-sized pot and a little more for large pots is a nice thing to do. This is particularly true when the dealer is doing a very good job with the game.
The one time I recommend not tipping (unless you really want to) is when you're playing a tournament and there's already money specifically with-held for it in addition to the rake.
The one time I recommend not tipping (unless you really want to) is when you're playing a tournament and there's already money specifically with-held for it in addition to the rake.
This Fish Chums
Visionary
Silver Level
You are correct. I was basing my comments entirely on the US situation where dealers are considered commodities and paid as low as possible without them leaving the company. I may still tip in a country where dealers were compensated well, but that would just be because I'm used to it.
S3mper
Poker Not Checkers
Loyaler
For the record I tip. In fact I probably over tip, but I don't play much live so it's not adding up like it would if I were to play 5 times a week.
I would like to see tipping done away with. And its not because I think dealers shouldn't be making enough money to get by. I think their employers should be paying them a fair wage.
The counter argument ITT from this point seems to be "Then they will raise the rake"
I don't necessarily think this argument is as strong as it may look on its face for a couple of reasons (Correct me if I'm wrong)
1- At a certain point the rake would be unplayable (it's already almost there as it is at the lower stakes) and players would stop coming. Forcing the poker room to lower the rake. Or to close its poker rooms doors.
2- A competitor would see this as a great opportunity to keep their rake low(ish) (lower?) compensating their losses on paying their employees with an increase in traffic. - Which in return would force the other casinos to lower their rake again.
Though I can see #2 not working in areas where a casino has a monopoly on gambling in its region.
Too bad the US doesn't view tipping like Japan where it's considered rude to tip
I would like to see tipping done away with. And its not because I think dealers shouldn't be making enough money to get by. I think their employers should be paying them a fair wage.
The counter argument ITT from this point seems to be "Then they will raise the rake"
I don't necessarily think this argument is as strong as it may look on its face for a couple of reasons (Correct me if I'm wrong)
1- At a certain point the rake would be unplayable (it's already almost there as it is at the lower stakes) and players would stop coming. Forcing the poker room to lower the rake. Or to close its poker rooms doors.
2- A competitor would see this as a great opportunity to keep their rake low(ish) (lower?) compensating their losses on paying their employees with an increase in traffic. - Which in return would force the other casinos to lower their rake again.
Though I can see #2 not working in areas where a casino has a monopoly on gambling in its region.
Too bad the US doesn't view tipping like Japan where it's considered rude to tip
S3mper
Poker Not Checkers
Loyaler
It would be nice if a Billion dollar casino isn't going to pay their employees if they gave some incentive to tipping for their dealers.
Maybe for every $1 you tip you get credited $1 in slot machine money with a rollover requirement.
This would incentivize players who aren't tipping to tip while also getting poker players to their -EV games
Maybe for every $1 you tip you get credited $1 in slot machine money with a rollover requirement.
This would incentivize players who aren't tipping to tip while also getting poker players to their -EV games
- <--- What is this? I can't delete it
Cam54
Rock Star
Silver Level
I always toke the dealer and usually the brush too ... usually as I leave .. the dealers all know me where I play, and I think it is disrespectful not too ... and if you think it is an unskilled profession .. I have to say I disagree ... it takes all of their concentration to watch the table and not make stupid mistakes, and keep up with the bets and play ....
Another situation where it will pay off is if you ever have a dispute, as in you want someone ... not to favor you in a decision, but at least to look at it objectively instead of I don't have time for this and I didn't notice anything wrong ...
I 'll even go one further with the brush ... if he sees you as a respectful player he might even text you when your favorite fish comes in and sits down or let you know the Jesus seat is open
It's kind of the honey/vinegar thought and besides that they make a very low wage, and in those service type industries I feel it is part or the deal .... you can say it is the greed of the casino and you would be right .. but you don't take it out on someone else that is sitting in a painful high back chair for 8 hours, trying to get by or the waitress juggling 8 tables and how to make your dining experience the most enjoyable it can be ... at the end of the day it doesn't hurt me to be fair and kind ... it only helps all concerned ....
Another situation where it will pay off is if you ever have a dispute, as in you want someone ... not to favor you in a decision, but at least to look at it objectively instead of I don't have time for this and I didn't notice anything wrong ...
I 'll even go one further with the brush ... if he sees you as a respectful player he might even text you when your favorite fish comes in and sits down or let you know the Jesus seat is open
It's kind of the honey/vinegar thought and besides that they make a very low wage, and in those service type industries I feel it is part or the deal .... you can say it is the greed of the casino and you would be right .. but you don't take it out on someone else that is sitting in a painful high back chair for 8 hours, trying to get by or the waitress juggling 8 tables and how to make your dining experience the most enjoyable it can be ... at the end of the day it doesn't hurt me to be fair and kind ... it only helps all concerned ....
Zorba
27
Platinum Level
- <--- It looks like one of these.
- <--- Oh No, there's another one.
- <--- I think it is the Blob coming from afar.
<--- It is the Blob.They are Bullet Points. You must have clicked the bullet point box indicated below, just hit enter and it will disappear again, or click the bullet point box again.
:lollypop:
S3mper
Poker Not Checkers
Loyaler
- <--- It looks like one of these.
- <--- Oh No, there's another one.
- <--- I think it is the Blob coming from afar.
View attachment 259092 <--- It is the Blob.
They are Bullet Points. You must have clicked the bullet point box indicated below, just hit enter and it will disappear again, or click the bullet point box again.
:lollypop:
Lol I knew what it was I just couldn't figure out how to get rid of it
C
Criminal Bizzy
Rock Star
Silver Level
Tipping in the U.S. started during the depression as a way for businesses to stay open and not have to raise the price so they could pay their employees. Because of this it has become accepted as expected behavior. Do I tip myself? Yes, when the situation seems appropriate. However I also think that the practice of tipping has become grossly abused and taken advantage of. For example when you go to a small store they might have a "tip jar", for what? So while I have a strong belief that employers should fairly compensate their employees, I also think that if the cost of a said service needs to be increased, that may be fair in some situations.
How does this relate to poker? I think one thing that we need to understand is that a casino is not making as much money from poker when compared to other table games, such as blackjack. There is no house edge or anything like that because we are not playing the house. We are playing other players and the casino is hoping that as players we will explore the casino and spend money on other games that they will make an actual profit from. Poker is popular enough that the casinos recognizes that it is a way to get people in their doors.
I think another thing to keep in mind is that if someone does not tip it really doesn't affect the employees wages. Many people who make arguments for or against tipping do not always know that the employer is responsible for making up the difference of an employee who is paid a tipped wage. So for any reason if a tipped employee does not report enough earned wages in a week to equal the minimum wage (base hourly wage for tipped employees is $2.13 in the U.S.), then the employer is obligated to pay the difference to make it the Federal minimum wage of $7.25. I am sure in a casino this is never the case since tipped employees have to cash out the tips and the casino probably keeps track of this forcing them to pay taxes on it all.
From what I have read, it sounds as if everyone is in agreement about two things
My question is, instead of arguing as a community the pros and cons of tipping a dealer. Can we discuss possible solutions to a practice that is being exploited? What as a poker community have we done to try and correct this? Is there something that we can do as poker players to try and right this wrong?
How does this relate to poker? I think one thing that we need to understand is that a casino is not making as much money from poker when compared to other table games, such as blackjack. There is no house edge or anything like that because we are not playing the house. We are playing other players and the casino is hoping that as players we will explore the casino and spend money on other games that they will make an actual profit from. Poker is popular enough that the casinos recognizes that it is a way to get people in their doors.
I think another thing to keep in mind is that if someone does not tip it really doesn't affect the employees wages. Many people who make arguments for or against tipping do not always know that the employer is responsible for making up the difference of an employee who is paid a tipped wage. So for any reason if a tipped employee does not report enough earned wages in a week to equal the minimum wage (base hourly wage for tipped employees is $2.13 in the U.S.), then the employer is obligated to pay the difference to make it the Federal minimum wage of $7.25. I am sure in a casino this is never the case since tipped employees have to cash out the tips and the casino probably keeps track of this forcing them to pay taxes on it all.
From what I have read, it sounds as if everyone is in agreement about two things
- The working class that depends on tips should be compensated more and fairly for their work
- Tipping is a grossly exploited by employers in the U.S.
My question is, instead of arguing as a community the pros and cons of tipping a dealer. Can we discuss possible solutions to a practice that is being exploited? What as a poker community have we done to try and correct this? Is there something that we can do as poker players to try and right this wrong?
H
Heresthecooler
Rock Star
Silver Level
I think tipping is a common courtesy. I make sure to tip $1 if the pot is over like $15. I'll tip $2 if the pot is about $40 or higher and $3 if the pot is over $100. I wouldn't hesitate to tip $10 on a very big hand. I think it's a subconscious superstition to tip while running hot. If you miss a tip and take a bad beat a few hands later, it could be attributed to that. Then again, this is coming from a superstitious player. Always tip.
diego farfan
Legend
Silver Level
of the tips of live games as you say, it depends on the actual gain that one achieves at the table since apart from their work some are really very friendly and pleasant making the game more enjoyable if you almost always tip it It is varied from 1 dollar to 3 in the case of my country
Zorba
27
Platinum Level
Sorry, i don't see subsidising someones wages so billion dollar casino's can make extra profit from the sweat of the workers as a common courtesy, I see it as enabling the casino's.
As a visitor to the US I would feel uncomfortable if I HAD to tip the dealer every hand I won, a tip given if I won and was up while he/she was my dealer as the dealer leaves the table is another story and still depends on if they did an exceptional job, no one else gets paid extra just for doing their job.
Do you or others tip the postmen per letter they deliver.? If not why not? What tip do paper boys get per newspaper they deliver, I can go on forever, where does it stop.
I'd rather not play as a protest to the horrible way their dealers were paid, maybe the US poker players that are so concerned about the dealers getting paid tips so they can afford to live may do the same, and the stupid practice of having to tip due to peer pressure can end (Peer pressure doesn't sound like the land of the free to me) and the dealers can earn the living wage that they deserve.
Superstition has no place in poker, I really can't understand that statement of missing a tip and then suffering a bad beat later, as if it is impossible to get a bad beat later.
Would you fold AA, KK, KK, AA if you get them in a row? Now that's some spooky shit but it can happen, surely there has to be a superstition about that happening.
Up the workers, fair living wages for all. :beer:
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H
Heresthecooler
Rock Star
Silver Level
If a dealer puts money into my pocket, the dealer gets a tip. I don't tip postal workers because they don't make any money for me. It's not an obligation. Tipping a dealer after a several hundred dollar hand cannot be compared to someone bringing me a package. Most people will tip more on a dinner, when the servers are obligated to bring food and refills. The service could be terrible and the server will most likely still get some kind of tip. Tipping is a happy impulse. If I don't have an impulsive desire to hand someone money for services, oh well. Ultimately, I decide what a hand is worth.
Poker_Mike
Legend
Loyaler
This is just not true.
Dealers are skilled. They need schooled training to be proficient at their job.
You think anyone can walk in off the street and deal cards?
A dealer after training can aim and land the card anywhere on the table. Deal multiple games (mixed games) and know the winning hand when 3 or 4 hands are tabled.
They are the primary customer service contact for the poker room. They entertain the guests and de-escalate tension to (hopefully) avoid physical violence between players.
Not to mention the math requirement that everyone expects to be spot-on exact at all times.
Are you guys nuts?
You think that you can do this job proficiently?
Try doing this job when you have a bad headache and players are yelling at you.
Jeezzzzz.
Poker_Mike
Legend
Loyaler
Actually people in the US DO tip their postal carriers. Usually around Christmas time as an annual "thank you". This has changed in areas that do not have a routine carrier. In other words if you have the same postal carrier all year round then you appreciate the little things they do for you.
And when I was a young newspaper carrier I did not expect tips but boy did I appreciate them. And if someone asked for their paper to be thrown on the side and not on the porch - you bet I went out of my way to make sure that house got what was requested.
Like it or not - tips do influence behaviour and the quality of service you can expect to receive.
Casino etiquette is to tip everyone you come in contact with. Yes everyone. But I can not afford to do this lol.
And I agree with you Zorba that they deserve a living wage. Believe it or not it is cheaper to tip than it is to be charged rake. Because of all the costs involved in taxing wages (depending on your country) it is less expensive for you to tip direct than to go through the rake that ends up in the poker rooms coffers and then dispensed as part of a salary. More efficient.
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zinzir
Legend
Silver Level
I hate the US tipping culture, but never blame the industry since it is the consumer's fault. The industry simply adapted, realizing that consumers tipped so consistently that hospitality businesses could simply pay their employees next to nothing and still have no trouble finding employees. Now it's built into the system, so we have to live with it.
In the US, not tipping dealers is worse than not tipping waiters. Unless a restaurant is completely full, the water is not making less money because someone does not tip, it's just some extra work for the same money. But in poker, the player who does not tip wins pots and takes money from the table, and the dealer is worse off with that player at his table than if the player was not there at all, regardless if the table is full or not.
In the US, not tipping dealers is worse than not tipping waiters. Unless a restaurant is completely full, the water is not making less money because someone does not tip, it's just some extra work for the same money. But in poker, the player who does not tip wins pots and takes money from the table, and the dealer is worse off with that player at his table than if the player was not there at all, regardless if the table is full or not.
zinzir
Legend
Silver Level
- <--- It looks like one of these.
- <--- Oh No, there's another one.
- <--- I think it is the Blob coming from afar.
View attachment 259092 <--- It is the Blob.
They are Bullet Points. You must have clicked the bullet point box indicated below, just hit enter and it will disappear again, or click the bullet point box again.
:lollypop:
I don't know why they called the emoji at the end of your post "Lollypop", looks more like a "Fellatio"
S
Smokewood
Visionary
Silver Level
Who the **** would even want that job?
And yes, you could train a monkey to do it just as well.
Poker_Mike
Legend
Loyaler
A monkey can throw cards and drop a rake.
But that is where it ends.
Monkey ain't gonna identify winning hands.
You must play in a room with terrible dealers.
If you have ever been dealt by a 60 or 70 year old dealer they are not there for the money.
They are working as a dealer for the medical benefits - in the US anyways.
Good luck !
Zorba
27
Platinum Level
That's their job to do that, just like it is a postman's job or a dealers job, people deserve a living wage and not to depend on people like you for their wage, you don't employ them. If you want to tip them, that's good that you do, but to do it because it is the expected thing is another story.
What if a postman delivered you a cheque, or Grandma sent you $10 for xmas, surely the postman deserves a tip then.
A tipping culture is kinda socialistic for a country so hell bent on capitalism, imho, everyone is helping to pay each others wages while the ones with deep pockets don't reach into said pockets. Casino owners can be considered social capitalists I suppose, they believe the people should pay their staff wages while they make massive profits.
e.g. How much do you think a $100.00 steak dinner actually costs a casino to prepare, clue is it's no where near $100.00. Why do we have wholesale and retail prices, how much is written off on tax that still comes at your expense when casino's minimise their taxes.
I may sound like a commie to you, I'm not, I'm a unionist that thinks people that make companies billions of dollars in profits should be paid what they are worth, just like I think executive salaries are a joke, they never break a sweat for millions of dollars annually.
:top:
Totally agree with you and another reason that they should be paid properly for their skills.
:top:
FYP slightly.
We used do a similar thing at Xmas for our rubbish collectors, shit can collectors (pre sewerage or septic days in some areas, now those guys below deserved a tip, I remember them with overfull cans with no lids like in the pics and the contents dripping down their backs), also mailmen and milkmen back in the day when people knew each other and interacted, usually some beer left out with the rubbish or in letterbox or where milk was delivered, now that it's all done by side lift trucks no one does it anymore, and postmen go by on small motorbikes that no one ever talks to them anymore, if you do it's just for a second or two and with their helmet on they usually can't hear you anyway.
Not having played in the US or had to tip a dealer, I'm curious as to where do the dealers put the tips, it sounds like it would be an extra thing that security would have to watch over, I'd rather they have their attention on people cheating.
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