JOEBOB'S return from the ashes

[JOEBOB69]

I also think it's a fold unless you know the straddler rarely raises their straddles.

straddler checked pre

not folding pre ever vs a bunch of fish

definitely think its a call on river as well. probably bet bigger on the turn he could have like Kd with a pair or something

Only my 2nd orbit. So i don't know if the straddler leans towards raising or checking to be honest. Just given a unknown straddler at a 300nl live table. I would guess his raising range vs that many callers would be fairly tight. Say AJs+ AQo+ 99+. That is just a guess though over what i've seen from other unknowns at 1-2/1-3 live.
Edit: I think people are over looking the importance of the speech he gave on the turn... I guess from experience that means the nut's 80% of the time. An are telling the truth the other 20% of the time. Then the river, i have to v-bet. Then he try's to under min raise i was like.. **** this mother ****er.. Since he is a unknown i think i have to call just in case this is a 2 pair, set, or a straight given the odds. Though the speech tells me he's got the nuts or close to it.

 

[Mr Sandbag]

As played, snap fold river. He says he has to draw out then raises river? Lawlz. At these stakes you're never good here, so you can't even call a minraise, IMO.

 

[WVHillbilly]

As played, snap fold river. He says he has to draw out then raises river? Lawlz. At these stakes you're never good here, so you can't even call a minraise, IMO.

I agree 100%. He's never raising on a flush possible board without a flush and his beats yours.

 

[stately7]

As played, snap fold river. He says he has to draw out then raises river? Lawlz. At these stakes you're never good here, so you can't even call a minraise, IMO.

Yes!

 

[Matt Vaughan]

After looking at hand again I agree with Sand's assessment of river.

However, I really can't see a fold pre here being good. Yeah, our hand's pretty shit, but we don't need it to be good that often. Even with reverse implied odds I can't see this being a bad spot to complete. Besides, it's not like we're ever sticking money in with TP of 8x.

@stately: I'm saying we have 14ish outs against a single, TP type hand - if villain has a FD then we're ahead - so he has like 13 outs vs. us (make any pair, make his over-flush). Things get tricky once two villains are in though, since we're drawing to 5 outs if we're against one villain with a FD and one villain with a better pair, and 2 outs or less if against two pair+ and a FD.

Edit: I think for this hand and lots of "trash" hands in general, we should remember that implied odds are always bigger in our favor b/c we're much better at getting away from hands than villains.

 

[stately7]

@stately: I'm saying we have 14ish outs against a single, TP type hand - if villain has a FD then we're ahead - so he has like 13 outs vs. us (make any pair, make his over-flush). Things get tricky once two villains are in though, since we're drawing to 5 outs if we're against one villain with a FD and one villain with a better pair, and 2 outs or less if against two pair+ and a FD.

Edit: I think for this hand and lots of "trash" hands in general, we should remember that implied odds are always bigger in our favor b/c we're much better at getting away from hands than villains.

Yeah I hear you on this. Our outs are pretty awesome against that single TP type hand, but we're 7-way on this flop - and i'm just not good enough yet to cope with that - lol.

 

[WVHillbilly]

After looking at hand again I agree with Sand's assessment of river.

However, I really can't see a fold pre here being good. Yeah, our hand's pretty shit, but we don't need it to be good that often. Even with reverse implied odds I can't see this being a bad spot to complete. Besides, it's not like we're ever sticking money in with TP of 8x.

If we were assured of seeing a flop by calling I'd agree but in my experience a straddler will very often raise when there are a bunch of players who have called the initial straddle. I really think you're throwing your money away here preflop unless we know the straddler is likely to check.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Prob depends on the casino tbf. I see tons of people straddle who only raise in spots where there are only 1 or 2 limpers, and if there are many limpers, only raise big hands. So basically, I think it IS likely he checks. Might vary place to place though.

 

[JOEBOB69]

Villain seems fairly balanced, decent reg
All hands are the same villain

Hand 1
100nl HU
Villain $119 (SB)
Hero $140 (BTN)
Hero on the BTN with Jd5d
Hero raises to $2, Villain calls
($4) flop
5h7hJs
Villain checks, Hero bets $2, Villain calls
($8) turn
6s
Villain checks, Hero bets $4, Villain calls
($16) River
Qs
Villain checks, Hero bets $8, Villain raises to $72, Hero ??? lol WTF


Hand 2
100nl HU
Villain $265 (SB)
Hero $134 (BTN)
Hero on the BTN with 6d4d
Hero raises to $2,Villain raises to $6, Hero raises to $12, Villain calls
($24) flop
4c6hKd
Villain checks, Hero bets$12, Villain raises to $36, Hero ???
Just GII right? I prob should be picking better hands to 4 bet with, but ehh not sure.


Hand 3
100nl HU
Villain $101.5(SB)
Hero $418 (BTN)
Hero on the BTN with Ac9h
Hero raises to $2, Villain raises to $6, Hero calls.
($12)Flop
9d8d4d
Villain bets $6, Hero calls $6
($24) Turn
5h
Villain bets $12, Hero calls
($48) River
Kc
Villain bets $48, Hero?

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Hand 1, I fold. If he's doing this with air we will find out soon enough, but if it's the first time he's done it, I tend to think he's got a massive value hand.

Hand 2, gii seems standard HU to me, but is he x/r air a bunch here? Cause if so we can flat.

Hand 3, if he's a decent reg he's probably accurately putting you on mostly bluff-catchers/weakish one pair hands. Your sets, two pairs, and flushes all raise earlier streets. River is a scare card to your range, so I think he's pretty polarized here, but weighted toward air. It's hard to see him merging his bet-pot range on the river here with like KdQx. But it kinda depends on how he views you.

 

[JOEBOB69]

FWIW
Decent reg was a semi lie.
I just wanted some true HA.
This is vs the AI Snowie (bot)
I've played ~15k hands vs this bot.
Snowie said fold was the correct move in Hand1 it back doored the nut flush, i have seen it do it with air as well though.
Hand 2
It said flat was the correct play, but i don't think so.
Hand 3 I called it rolled over air, but said folding the river was the correct play.

Another weird side note Snowie min raises ever position but the BTN, were it 3x's the BTN.
That seems to go away from all conventional wisdom.

 

[JOEBOB69]

Ok
To start with I think Snowie play’s pretty solid, but some of it’s “blunder” advice seems questionable.
Here are some hands. I could post a ton, but I’ll just post some random hands that it’s advice seems wrong.
Hands 1
100nl
Hero $221(SB)
Villain $122(BB)
Hero on the BTN with
Hero raises to $2, villain calls.
($4) Flop

Villain checks, Hero bets $2, Villain calls
($8) Turn

Villain checks, Hero bets $4, Villain calls
($16) River

Villain checks, Hero bets $ 8, Villain folds.
Now Snowie says checking back the river is more +EV of a play. Seems wrong to me thoughts?

Hand 2
Hero $353(BB)
Villain $100(SB)
Hero in the BB with
Villain raises to $3, Hero raises to $9, villain calls
($18) flop

Hero bets $9, villain calls
Snowie says here the correct play is to check?