The importance of finishing first

ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Total posts
13,642
Just a quickie here about the importance of finishing first.

I was playing a couple $16 turbos this morning; I won one and bubbled the other with a little too much aggression when I ran into Q♣Q♦with my 10♠5♠ :)o). After I finished them off, I was just skimming through my STT stats in PokerTracker, and it got me thinking about the importance of staying aggressive on the bubble (which in turn gives you a much better chance of finishing first rather than second or third).

Let's look at a couple examples for $10 10-seater STTs (which are very general and unrealistic just to illustrate my point). Each player has managed to get to the top four 50 times.

Payouts are as follows:

$50 for first place
$30 for second place
$20 for third place
$0 for fourth place

First we have a player who's stats suggest that he's pretty weak-tight on the bubble, but has still managed to squeek into third place 35 times, and bubbled 15 times:

1) 0
2) 0
3) 35
4) 15

Total prizes:

(0*$50)+(0*$30)+(35*$20)+(15*10) = $700

Looks good, but let's take a look at someone who's been much more aggressive on the bubble, and has built his stack every game to a point where he's a strong contender for 1st. Let's say he placed:

1) 25
2) 0
3) 0
4) 25

Total prizes:

(25*$50)+(0*$30)+(0*$20)+(25*0) = $1250

So even though player 2 bubbled 10 more games, and placed in 10 fewer games than player 1, he still managed to make %180 the prizes of player 1. Like I said, these are pretty unrealistic examples, and the actual difference between a weak-tight and an aggressive player's profits won't be as much, but it is still huge.

Aggressive bubble play is essential in having any contention for first place unless you're a cardrack who somehow manages to have a massive stack every time the bubble comes (in which case you would actually have more of a reason to push people around).

This also applies to MTTs and final tabling, but I'm way too lazy to do any crazy calc's on that.

-ChuckTs
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Total posts
13,642
lol...:eek:

Shoulda reread the damn thing with all you sickos here :/
 
jayneseo

jayneseo

Legend
Joined
Jan 31, 2007
Total posts
1,353
I feel I may have started an avalanche :)
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Total posts
13,642
I agree completely, titans. It's a waste of time to try to limp into the money IMO. Regarding your link, I think the 'best' SnGs to play would depend on your style. I personally have much more experience with STTs rather than 2+ table SnGs, which is why I do so much better in them.

Some people know how to build a huge stack for MTT SnGs, others know how to rip through players on the bubble of an STT. I think it's a matter of personal preference.

I just realized my examples are kind of poor...here's a little bit of a better illustration:

$50 for first place
$30 for second place
$20 for third place
$0 for fourth place

Player who plays for ITM finishes:

1) 0
2) 0
3) 50

Total prizes:

(0*$50)+(0*$30)+(50*$20) = $1000


Player who goes for the gusto:

To make the same amount in prizes w/first places only:

(X*50)+0+0 = $1000
50X = $1000
X = 20

So someone with an ROI of %100 but only 3rd place finishes would make the same profit as someone with an ROI of only %40 (only :p) and who would only finish in 1st.

kk that's kind of a shitty example, too. I think you guys get my point, though. Play to win!
 
JimboJim

JimboJim

Legend
Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Total posts
2,152
Just a little stat to help with your point. The other day I played 5 $10 SnG's. Finished 2nd in 2 and bubbled 3. Sounds like I still should be profiting but if I count the entry fee that Stars takes I'm down $1.

A couple days before that I played in 7 $10 SnG's. I place 1st in 2 and bubbled 5. I'm up $13 after the entry fees.
 
LuckyShark777

LuckyShark777

Visionary
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Total posts
591
Great post Chuck this really helped me open my eyes, now I will be even more agressive come bubble time!
 
Debi

Debi

Forum Admin
Administrator
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Total posts
70,631
Awards
20
Good food for thought - could be the difference in winning and losing on a smaller scale. I am often happy just to get to the money and probably only break even in sng's at this point, maybe even slightly down.
 
Stefanicov

Stefanicov

Legend
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Total posts
1,631
It is all about winning i play 18s and only way to be profitable long term is a lot of hds up apperances. 3rd or 4th just dont cut it long term as real money is at the top:D
 
Top