Good Finish, Bad Result, Perhaps and ugly play?

K

KK_Cowboy

Guest
Well I just got done playing what I consider to be the best tournament (as far as how I played and read people) I ever have. However I was one spot short of where I wanted to finish. However I will take 60 bonus dollars and be happy. Now for the real meat and potatoes of this post.

First hand heads-up about the same amount of chips give or take 9k. I am dealt 44 and come out for a raise, I am put all-in. Your opponent has been wild for the amount of time you have seen them. You know you likely have the best hand. I know I will get some criticism for going for it, and it stopped me from winning, but I could have just as easily won the hand and the tourney if the 4's held. Truth be told even though I didn't win, and even though I perhaps really shouldn't have called, I can'tbe too upset. So if you were in the same spot, would you have went for it or not?
 
K

Kanufi

Guest
well, I haven't been at that many final tables but from the experience that I did gain so far I guess at that point its often like what you said: You know what your opponent has been doing lately and after analyzing his current play it is a gut decision. If you believed he did not have a pair, you are at worst a 48% underdog if he holds suited connecters, and bout 50-50 for unsuited, the favorite, though slight for all others. Having said that I realize that it is like a flip of the coin. If I believed he had nothing, I might have called just as you did.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
Depends. If I feel I can outplay my opponent heads-up, I fold here - if not I take the probable coinflip given your read on him. I suck heads up so I'm calling most of the time. :)
 
Crippler450

Crippler450

Guest
Please finish the story and tell us how the rest of the hand went. What came up? what did he have?
 
Four Dogs

Four Dogs

Legend
It's a coin toss really. Your probably the favorite. You must play aggressively in heads up to be successfull, but that's assuming that high pairs and high cards are usally good for a raise. I probably would call here, but as Dork says, if you think you can out play him then let it go for now. If you feel like your even or below in heads-up skill, definately call.
 
K

KK_Cowboy

Guest
Well Crippler...

I did kind of suggest in my original post that I lost this coin flip. But for the record it was my 44's vs KJ, and I lost. But still I am not overly disappointed.
 
jeterkid925

jeterkid925

Guest
Id call if the player was a very agressive player, I'd call, if he was a tight player, I'd fold.

Now what did you do!
 
K

KK_Cowboy

Guest
Well one final post on this

I have already explained the outcome of the hand so I shall not do so in this one. Now there were some analytical questions asked about whether I felt I could outplay him or not. Let me simply say if I were to do this again, I really may not have called this for 2 reasons (even though I can easily make a case for calling). First reason being was the opponent I was heads up with went into the final table in first and I was in second. He had about approx 700k in chips. I had between between 400-500k, Not exactly sure simply because I wasn't really focused on exactly how much I had, I was by far the more aggresive player and by the time my opponent and I went heads up, I had a few more chips than they did (approx 1.1 million a piece).
 
titans4ever

titans4ever

Legend
If you were the more aggressive player, I would have folded there. You would have the advantage over time. You can create a chip lead by the agressive play and then lean even harder.

I learned a trick. If you think you are not close to the best player at the table put all your chips in before the flop. Then the skill of the better players is removed from the hand. He can't trap you, reraise you, out play you. All the pressure is on him to read your hand now and try and make a call. If you think you are the better player then by all means try and make the other person play after the flop.

The only way I would have considered pushing in that early is if I had QQ KK AA or possibly AK suited. Then at worse you are a 4 to 1 under even if he has AA. If you think you can beat him even 6 out of 10 times, then why leave it to a 50/50 hand.
 
J

JonSherwood

Guest
Hmmm, in a situation like that I would fold. Usually I'm a big fan of any pocket pair when playing a heads up match because most times they'll hold up against two face cards because that person only has 6 outs and he has to hit them in order to beat you, you've already got a pair.

In this case though when it's been a MTT and you're playing for a big increase in payout (as there usually is from first to second) I would fold. I'm usually a pretty strong heads up player and with a chip lead already I'd just try and out play them.

I can see why you did what you did though. It wasn't a bad decision either...hardly ever have I see two pocket pairs at the same time heads up so even if he had AK he's still yet to make a hand and you've already got one. You mentioned he was very aggressive, so I don't there was anything wrong with making that call. It just didn't hold up this time. More times than not though that decision would've let you win.

Jon
 
bubbasbestbabe

bubbasbestbabe

Suckout Queen
At that point in the game I would have folded the 4's. To me low pairs on heads up are tempting but not worth losing over cause I know that if I wait long enough I will get a really good bottom hand to go for it with. Time is on my side. If he was as wild as you say he was, just keep folding until you are happy. When you finally call he will be chomping at the bit and ready to play.
 
K

KK_Cowboy

Guest
Well one final final post lol

I guess there are some pros and their are some cons to what I did. All I know is I had a grand ole time finishing 2nd out of 1550 players and winning 60 bonus dollars. It would have been nice to win it all, but c'est la vie. I can't say I am overly disappointed with how I played.
 
Arjonius

Arjonius

Legend
jeterkid925 said:
Id call if the player was a very agressive player, I'd call, if he was a tight player, I'd fold.
Why? Seems to me that with 44, you're very likely to be facing either two overcards regardless of whether the opponent is loose or tight. It makes little difference in the odds whether the overcards are AK or xx. If the opponent has a pocket pair, they have what they have - again, no difference whether loose or aggressive. So, the only situation to consider is one overcard, and again, it doesn't matter much what the overcard is. With 44, the opponent won't have an undercard all that often, so differentiating on the basis of a loose player being more likely to have an undercard seems like a rather slim decision factor.

Also would you call a tight player with a hand like AK or AQ? I sure would, and I suspect almost everyone would. 44 is a better hand than either of those.
 
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