Flush draw and straight draw out of position

[jproy444]

Hi! I'm curious how some of you play open-ended straight draw and flush draw after the flop (almost similar odds) out of position and against an agressive player who make big continuation bet in cash game (like pot size bet). Do you call and see the turn? Do you fold and wait for the same situation in position?

 

[Station_Master]

Do you mean flush and straight draw, I.e. combo draw? Or just either flush or straight draw? I I assuming the latter.

These hands are good to check raise the flop, especially against an aggressive opponent who will bet often. It does depend on the board texture though and whether your opponent will have missed alot.

Versus a pot size bet I might only call, but if it is just an agro player who always bets pot I think a raise is fine.

You also want to consider if drawing to nuts, e.g. if you have a straight draw and hit your hand could you lose to a higher straight? If so it can be better to just call

 

[dannystanks]

If you are facing a pot size bet against one opponent, you are putting in 33% of the pot (the pot includes your call remember). So math wise this is a minus expected value play for you because your flush draw with 9 clean outs has 18% equity. Straight draw with 8 clean outs puts you at 16%. So in order to make up for that we need good implied odds. We have to be able to make good value when we hit. So if your opponent is deep stacked and doesn’t pay attention when the board puts up 3 flush cards you can make a lot of money. Better if the straight comes in because it’s harder to spot than a flush. But if you are playing a Nit that will shut down when the flush hits the board then you will make no money, no implied odds.
You have to plan ahead also. If you call what will he / she do on the turn and river? They are aggressive so you can expect more bets to come, and if they are a good player they will price you out of your draws.

 

[jproy444]

If you are facing a pot size bet against one opponent, you are putting in 33% of the pot (the pot includes your call remember). So math wise this is a minus expected value play for you because your flush draw with 9 clean outs has 18% equity. Straight draw with 8 clean outs puts you at 16%. So in order to make up for that we need good implied odds. We have to be able to make good value when we hit. So if your opponent is deep stacked and doesn’t pay attention when the board puts up 3 flush cards you can make a lot of money. Better if the straight comes in because it’s harder to spot than a flush. But if you are playing a Nit that will shut down when the flush hits the board then you will make no money, no implied odds.
You have to plan ahead also. If you call what will he / she do on the turn and river? They are aggressive so you can expect more bets to come, and if they are a good player they will price you out of your draws.

Thank you! So with an agressive player who double barrel and bluff alot, the implied odds can justify chasing a straight? I've won a couple of good pots with JQ with a 10-K-x flop.

 

[dannystanks]

Thank you! So with an agressive player who double barrel and bluff alot, the implied odds can justify chasing a straight? I've won a couple of good pots with JQ with a 10-K-x flop.

Playing against the mindless aggressive aka manic you will almost always have great implied odds. Is it worth chasing? Well you will still have to hit your straight draw which you will 16% with a single card to come. If you go all in your equity goes up to around 32% because you are now guaranteed to see both the turn and river. It’s a gamble. A better way is to get yourself some more outs when you are in this situation. Have a combo draw like a flush and straight draw then you have way more equity. And if you have two overs with the straight and flush draw you find yourself a favorite in the hand so it’s party time against mindless aggression.

 

[Esthevan007]

TOP.....

 

[waisichy]

You could check raise with a shove, they may fold or even if they call you could win the pot. I probably wouldn’t do it with the straight draw but I would definitely with an A high flush draw.

 

[dreamer13]

It is important to understand that the goal of aggressive draw play is, with very few exceptions, to win the pot immediately. Advanced players sometimes think ahead, planning their play on future streets, and on the turn they need to have some drawing hands in their range for balance.With drawing hands, it is always profitable to take the pot immediately.

 

[Aballinamion]

Hi! I'm curious how some of you play open-ended straight draw and flush draw after the flop (almost similar odds) out of position and against an agressive player who make big continuation bet in cash game (like pot size bet). Do you call and see the turn? Do you fold and wait for the same situation in position?

I like to call more than raising versus aggressive player in spots like this. It will depend if I have nutted OESD or dominated ones.