First One in the Pot

RammerJammer

RammerJammer

Visionary
Awards
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Chris "Jesus" Ferguson just posted a great entry for Full Tilt's "Lessons from the Pros" series. It's entitled "Sizing Up Your Opening Bet". One of my pet peeves in playing online poker is the outrageous number of unraised pots. Everyone wants to play it safe by limping in their hands all the way around the table.

I copied the first two paragraphs here, which summarize why the opener should be a "raise or fold" choice. Chris goes on to detail how much to raise, based upon hand strength and position. It's good stuff, typical of this great series on Full Tilt. You can request that these be sent straight to your email when new articles are released.

"I never get tired of saying it: If you're the first to enter the pot in a No-Limit Hold 'em game, never call. If you aren't prepared to raise, throw your hand away.

"Why, you ask? Simple. By raising, you put pressure on the blinds and the other players at the table, making them consider just how strong their hands really are. Chances are that by raising, you'll force marginal hands to fold before you even see the flop, limiting the number of players you have to beat through the rest of the hand."


So, the next time you limp in your Queens to see them beaten by the guy with K3 offsuit who caught a cheap King on the flop, remember the "raise or fold" credo. It's not really a "bad beat" when you ask for it.
 
Four Dogs

Four Dogs

Legend
I just read that one myself and for the most part I agree. But I think it's a bit oversimplified. I look at medium streanght hands pre flop the same way I look at drawing hands post flop. If you can see the next card cheaply than do it. The more players there are to act behind you, the less likely you are to go unchallenged, and the more expensive it will become to play the hands that will require some help on the flop. Chris lives and plays in a world where everyone who enters the pot, raises the pot. We live in a world where its not unusual to assume a bet from early position will hold up through the blinds. If I think there's a good chance I can see the flop cheaply with 8,7s in the hole, that's how I'll play it.
 
bubbasbestbabe

bubbasbestbabe

Suckout Queen
WOW!! What happened to the dog? Did you get a puppy or something?:) What's the saying, can't teach an old dog new tricks? Or how about a dog can't change his spots? Or have you been taken over by the pod people?;)
 
Four Dogs

Four Dogs

Legend
It's the new me. Do you like it? From now on I'm only going to say nice things.
 
J

Jon_UK

Guest
I think that this advice should be applied to tournament situations where the blinds are putting a fairly substantial amount of chips in the pot, but I would certainly want to limp into pots and see a cheap flop in fairly passive ring games if I have a drawing hand. Of course, the example that he gives is an obvious one - you can't be limping in with QQ. Perhaps the only time you can do this is if you're sure that someone behind you will raise and then you can get a reraise in - but you definitely risk overplaying your queens if you do this.
 
bubbasbestbabe

bubbasbestbabe

Suckout Queen
Four Dogs said:
It's the new me. Do you like it? From now on I'm only going to say nice things.
I am laughing so hard right now. I am willing to take all bets on how long this will last. The avatar is really funny.:flowers:
 
K

koy4714

Guest
Four Dogs said:
It's the new me. Do you like it? From now on I'm only going to say nice things.
I always thought that your "not" nice things were some of the most insightful.

My vote is for the old Dog to come back. (Or at least change back to your original avatar!)
 
miked77

miked77

Guest
This is good advice in most circumstances. However, if you are dealt Aces, you are always afraid to overplay them and not get any action. On the flip side if you play passively, more people with drawing hands are likely to come in. Its more about knowing what your opponents have and when to throw away your hand.


Im not good in explanations.
 
Jesus Lederer

Jesus Lederer

Rock Star
miked77 said:
This is good advice in most circumstances. However, if you are dealt Aces, you are always afraid to overplay them and not get any action. On the flip side if you play passively, more people with drawing hands are likely to come in. Its more about knowing what your opponents have and when to throw away your hand.


Im not good in explanations.
You have to raise with aces because you don´t want to be outdrawn. Remember that aces are the best hand preflop, but what happens if you don´t raise and there are 4 or 5 limpers? Your odds of winning with those aces decreases dramatically.
As Jon_Uk said, a situation where you should limp in at first position is if you know that you are against aggressive players and someone is going to raise. But if you slowplay with a monster hoping to get more players in the pot, you´re probably doing the wrong thing. For example if i´m holding a monster in a $1/2 table, i prefer 1 player that calls a $8 bet than 4 players limping in.
Anyway, as Dogs said, if you´re at a table were almost every hand ther it isn´t a preflop raise, you should consider limping in with a medium hand. I prefer not doing it, because i can hit something and have kicker problems (considering that almost all the table limped in).
 
G

grimjack808

Guest
You might as well raise everything going in even if you are playking rags. A lot of time people will fold. And the people who play a limping game will go on tilt and make some really bad bets.

I've plaid a limping home game for a few months now, and everyone is getting real upset at me, but I keep winning. How do I keep get invited back? I bring a case of beer and tell jokes.
 
BC4Jesus

BC4Jesus

Guest
RammerJammer said:
Chris "Jesus" Ferguson just posted a great entry for Full Tilt's "Lessons from the Pros" series. It's entitled "Sizing Up Your Opening Bet". One of my pet peeves in playing online poker is the outrageous number of unraised pots. Everyone wants to play it safe by limping in their hands all the way around the table.

I copied the first two paragraphs here, which summarize why the opener should be a "raise or fold" choice. Chris goes on to detail how much to raise, based upon hand strength and position. It's good stuff, typical of this great series on Full Tilt. You can request that these be sent straight to your email when new articles are released.

"I never get tired of saying it: If you're the first to enter the pot in a No-Limit Hold 'em game, never call. If you aren't prepared to raise, throw your hand away.

"Why, you ask? Simple. By raising, you put pressure on the blinds and the other players at the table, making them consider just how strong their hands really are. Chances are that by raising, you'll force marginal hands to fold before you even see the flop, limiting the number of players you have to beat through the rest of the hand."


So, the next time you limp in your Queens to see them beaten by the guy with K3 offsuit who caught a cheap King on the flop, remember the "raise or fold" credo. It's not really a "bad beat" when you ask for it.
That's a great concept! But what about if you are the small blind and have nothing and everyone else has checked. Should you just call and wait to see if a hand is made on the flop?

BOB C.
 
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