do you call raises with suited connectors?

Nitram_80

Nitram_80

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Should suited connectors be played different in NL ring games vs tournaments? Lets say you are in middle or late position and someone raised a good amount from early position , do you call with 98s? I used to think it was incorrect to do so unless you had a few players in the pot , in that case the pot odds would apply. However I am starting to play these more even if I am the only caller so far . The reason is that I think I do a good job of reading the situation so if I encounter alot of action I can fold bottom or middle pair. Then you have so many online players who overplay so many hands like a high pocket pair that if the flop hits you right , then you can win a big stack . I know most of the times these hands will miss the flop but do you think that this is profitable in online play?
 
tosborn

tosborn

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If I have a good read on the majority of the table I will play 78+ suited connectors from late positions. It is an easy hand to lay down to lay down like you said.
 
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alan1983

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I call if we both have big stacks behind us or if i think someone else will call too.
 
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BigDaddy30736

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suited connectors

:) I play suited connectors but only in certain and/or situations and it seems you have the answers so carry on.And by the way .....the picture....SWWWWEEEEEEETTTTTT:) :) :)
 
Nitram_80

Nitram_80

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glad you like the pic big daddy , figured I would more attention with it ..lol . Now lets say you limp in with a suited connector and someone raises you a nice size raise from late position , is it ok to still call? What if you are one of the blinds and you got a raise in front you? I guess there's a few factors to consider in these situations and I agree that the most important one is stack size, if its small is just not worth it.
 
Stefanicov

Stefanicov

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ill play anything to a raise purely on stack value in cash.

if i hit hard enuff u givin me all ure chippies so beware

(tho most of the forum is anyways hehe)
 
ChuckTs

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It's situational, like everything poker.

Calling a raise w/98s w/ a 20BB stack is terrible, but when you're both sitting 100+BBs deep it becomes a much better play since the implied odds are there.
 
NineLions

NineLions

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Brunson says call, raise if you're in late position. Generally oriented towards ring games.

Cloutier has a 2 limper rule, play late if you've got 2 limpers in.

Me, it depends. :)
 
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bill118911

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i play some suited connectors depends on how much chips i have and what the raise was and also how many other ppl are in the pot still it comes down to alot of stuff for myself to debate on how to play them but its allways nice seeing a flop with them
 
dj11

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It's more fun to raise early position or first in with 89s. I do it on occasion, especially when I get several suckouts in a row in my favor. For a brief time the table is paralyzed when that happens and it will take a few hands for thier sanity to return. It's a small window but worth exploiting.

As always, suited connectors are easy to lay down.
 
alexanderwoo1

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I would probably because even if he has a big hand you have a chance with straight and flush draws if you get lucky.
 
Vhyre

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That depends a lot on the level at which you play. As a rule I will call with J-10s or better but will lay it down if re-raised. As always, position is all important
 
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joeeagles

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To answer your 1st question (Should suited connectors be played different in NL ring games vs tournaments?) I say yes, they should be played differently. It depends on many factors, like position, stack size, your read on the table, stage of tourney etc.


As for your 2nd (Lets say you are in middle or late position and someone raised a good amount from early position , do you call with 98s? ) I think Chuck answered it properly by saying it depends mainly on stack sizes, since you're in position here.The only thing I can add is that, if I'm deep enough to call, it also has to be a player that I consider pretty tight, so I can have a decent idea to know if I'm ahead or not if I hit top pair on a 9 high board, for example. Loose players, or the ones that play any A are the most dangerous to face in this spot because its hard to know if you're ahead when they play back at you.

Since the purpose of playing these hands, as everyone knows, is to stack your opponent because you can connect strongly with the flop in a silent fashion, its important to remember that you shouldn't go too far with these hands particularly if you're facing a loose player. As long as your able to do that, and the other conditions are met, I think its OK to call with some of them. Personally though, and some may disagree with this, I wouldn't call a raise with anything smaller than 8-7s, unless someone else has already called.
 
Nitram_80

Nitram_80

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To answer your 1st question (Should suited connectors be played different in NL ring games vs tournaments?) I say yes, they should be played differently. It depends on many factors, like position, stack size, your read on the table, stage of tourney etc.


As for your 2nd (Lets say you are in middle or late position and someone raised a good amount from early position , do you call with 98s? ) I think Chuck answered it properly by saying it depends mainly on stack sizes, since you're in position here.The only thing I can add is that, if I'm deep enough to call, it also has to be a player that I consider pretty tight, so I can have a decent idea to know if I'm ahead or not if I hit top pair on a 9 high board, for example. Loose players, or the ones that play any A are the most dangerous to face in this spot because its hard to know if you're ahead when they play back at you.

Since the purpose of playing these hands, as everyone knows, is to stack your opponent because you can connect strongly with the flop in a silent fashion, its important to remember that you shouldn't go too far with these hands particularly if you're facing a loose player. As long as your able to do that, and the other conditions are met, I think its OK to call with some of them. Personally though, and some may disagree with this, I wouldn't call a raise with anything smaller than 8-7s, unless someone else has already called.

you bring up some good points but I want to add to this. Calling against a tight player maybe easier if you don't connect hard but at the same time they are capable of folding top pair if they read you right. Not all of them will but the one's that do , means your implified odds are not as good as with the loose player. Now lets talk about that loose player , yea he will try to push you off the pot when you have the best hand but he will also pay you off when you hit big. He will bluff at you up to the river and we know that most of these player's will not fold top pair .

At the same time, when you play online alot of times you are not sure what type of player he is so you are faced with calling or not calling . Both players have some weaknesses that you can take advantage of , so if its profitable to call againts one , then it must be the same with the other. I do agree that anything below 78s its probably not profitable because even with top pair , you may lose to a higher pair.
 
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joeeagles

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I agree loose player will pay you big when you connect strongly so in that case it is worth it, but you also have to throw away your hand with anything marginal because its too dangerous. If you are able to fold after the flop then its OK to play him, since you're right that they both have weaknesses that you can take advantage of with the proper strategy.
 
alexanderwoo1

alexanderwoo1

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Also it depends on your playing style if you want to gamble and hope to make a hand than you'd call. If your a tight player you could call or fold really.
 
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sdexceed

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This to me is a premium hand. If you call a reasonable reraise - right away people put you on Ace with high kicker or high cards or mid to high pp. If you hit at least the draw on the flop without an ace and check ppl are going to almost always put you on ace high and will bet into you. Here is the tricky part after yo ucall and hit your str8 or flush it becomes a betting game to maximize your earnings but it is situational. Also, even if you hit high pair such as 9's on the board - be prepared to fold very quickly. Remember, you are in this hand for the str8 or flush not a pp.

This hand is definitely about know when to hold it and when to fold it.
 
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FinalTable

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I will call a raise if it's not too much. How much is too much? It's relative to my chip stack. Certainly not more than 5-10% of my stack (depending on how high the connectors are). If it's a big raise, I won't call. I play a little tighter and I don't always follow pot odds/implied odds as much I play situations.

I certainly won't call a reraise. If someone early raises and someone in middle reraises, I'm done with the hand. If noone has raised to me and I'm in middle or later, I'll raise 4-5X BB and narrow field. If I'm reraised, I'll have to see how much and then if I have a read on the player.

If I was the caller, but am leading out first, I'll immediately throw a stab at the pot whether flop hit me or not (represent pckt pair or tp). If called, I proceed with caution, if reraised, I'm done.

But - when I hit, I lead out with strong, but not overpowering raise. I want a caller. If I reraised or called his raise preflop - then my raise post flop will be bigger knowing the villian is on a hand.

It's all situational. But I WOULD call a raise given the right conditions. Again, I WON'T call a big raise or reraise. I'm not taking my 78s up against QQ+. If someone told me they had pckt 10s, I probably wouldn't call a raise. That's what a big raise tells me. If they are bluffing and bluff me off my suited conn - so be it. Congrats. I want to see the flop and I don't want to pay a lot for it...but I would like to see a narrow field so if I have to raise to accomplish that, than so be it. If someone else raises for me, I'll call. If it's a hand where 4 of 6 fold and it's to me, I'll just limp. If I miss, I'll stab and be done vs resistance - but if it hits, I'll check and see if other limper hit anything and then reraise.
 
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jeffred1111

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If I was the caller, but am leading out first, I'll immediately throw a stab at the pot whether flop hit me or not (represent pckt pair or tp). If called, I proceed with caution, if reraised, I'm done.

Would you do this if you had, lets say 130xbb and you were against a middle stack (50xbb) nearing the bubble in a mtt tourney ? In this situation, sometimes a rereraise might be in order, or just calling the reraise.

Also, not to be the devil's advocate, but I see a lot of people c-bet with suited connectors and it is somewhat easy to spot in the long run and act accordingly (raise with garbage to steal the pot): the connectors player will limp on the buton or only raise if he has position, trying to see the flop cheaply. I'll play suited connectors hard pre-flop to back up my act of representing whatever high card hits the flop if I miss.

But I agree with you that laying them down is a must when you suspect you're beat, wich is very often if there's more than 1 other player in the pot.
 
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FinalTable

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I guess a lot of my strategy was based on ring games.

In a tourney, I'd have to have a read on my opponent. I played in a tourney yesterday (live) with about 30 players and there were three times I took a pot with suited connectors that didn't hit. One in particular I pushed after raising 5X BB preflop and pushing all-in post flop. The only reason I knew I could do that is because the only other caller in the pot was calling everything. I had played with this guy in the past and he likes to call anything to chase. So a raise would have been called and i wouldn't know any better where I was at. But he's very reluctant to get ALL his chips in play. So he mucked.

The other times, I raised or called a raise preflop and then led out betting 4-5X BB after flop and took the pots down. But if I read I was beat post flop - I can lay the hand down and not think twice.

Also, if I lead out betting and I'm just called - I may put my opp on a draw and will fire a second bullet on turn of about 2/3 of pot. If that's called, I'll have a good read on my opp to continue the hand. More than likely, I'm check-folding the river. In our tourneys, that kind of play usually is interpreted as YOU being on a draw...and the villian has a made hand. A check on river will result in a big raise post flop.

But - do this once or twice and then when you have a made hand - play it the same way and on the river - you can push after villian check-raises you.

I love talking about this stuff - but as much as we discuss - the variable will always be that poker is very situational. Sometimes I'll go against all logic and play my gut.

I noticed that about Doyle and Harrington - there are situations in the book and they explain a way they'd play and it's the most +EV in the long run - but you watch them play a hand as described in the book and they play it completely diff. 2 things - one we didn't watch the setup thanks to great TV editing....and two : they could be just mixing up their play. But sometimes, they just play the gut feelings.

I don't go off the +EV play very often - but I CAN do it if I feel I can win the pot.
 
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jeffred1111

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Very nice poste by the way. I love to talk about this stuff too : I'm not much of a math and odds guy, altough I use them to my advantage, but since I've started reading here, my reading abilities and betting recognition patterns have went to the roof, thus my range of playable hands is much larger than it used to.
 
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SlyJ

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I think it all depends on your position, chip stack in a tourney, and the amount of action.
 
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