Deepstack play

ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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With me and Tenbob sitting at around 400BBs in the 25NL game we played the other day, we got to talking about what our calling ranges for each other are.

Deepstack play is all about implied odds, and we can call PF with a much wider range of hands since there's so much to be won postflop if we hit. I joked by saying I'd call a raise from him with 32o and up, but really how low can we go?

This is of course a pretty general question, but I'll give a more specific situation:

Seat 1: aloevera ($30.15 in chips)
Seat 2: Stefanicov ($61.85 in chips)
Seat 3: MrSticker66 ($32.85 in chips)
Seat 4: hott_estelle ($20 in chips)
Seat 5: ChuckTs ($100 in chips)
Seat 6: PLF_DBA_MAN ($23.45 in chips)
Seat 7: Freakakanus ($19.95 in chips)
Seat 8: dakota-xx ($19.80 in chips)
Seat 9: tenbob ($100 in chips)
Freakakanus: posts small blind $0.10
dakota-xx: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ChuckTs [X X]
tenbob: raises $0.5 to $0.75
aloevera: folds
Stefanicov: folds
MrSticker66: folds
hott_estelle: folds
ChuckTs: calls with...

For the sake of simplicity, let's just say that the players behind us won't raise, but they might call. Also for the sake of simplicity, I've changed our starting stacks to $100 each (400BBs).

How crappy of a hand do you call with here?

What if we're only sitting with 200BBs? 300BBs? >400BBs?

At what point do we literally call with any 2 cards?
 
tenbob

tenbob

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Yer I remember this conversation from the last night. Your post flop play is more important than your pre-flop play in situations like yove described above. Calling ranges should be A-x suited, all connectors, all gapped suited connectors, all pairs. I would be cautious that these hands would be only playable if the pots begins to swell once you hit 2 pair+ hands and mosteer combo draws.
 
skoldpadda

skoldpadda

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I think you CAN play ATC in this situation... very carefully.
 
joosebuck

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depends on if you think you can outplay tb in most postflop scenarios
 
Tammy

Tammy

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depends on if you think you can outplay tb in most postflop scenarios
That's the real question. ^^ I've played enough against tenbob to know I can't or shouldn't try to get fancy. And even if I have KK against his QQ, his lucky Irishness will have him suck out another Q by the river. ;)

Seriously though. He's not afraid to fire back at you. You'd better be confident in your play against him, or he'll be stacking you too. To answer your question, I think your stack gives you the room to loosen up a little. I'd say pretty much the range that TB has laid out above. And of course, be ready to give it up if you don't hit the flop hard.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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fwiw, in this hand actual stacks were actually $80 and change for me, $110 for TB and I called PF with T9o.
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

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Any pair, any suited connectors, one-gap suited connectors, probably suited aces, though I'm really weary of the weak ones when we hit our A. I stay away from weak unsuited aces; too likely to be dominated with significantly less flush value. Probably unsuited connectors 56 and above too, maybe on a slightly randomizing basis (sometimes fold them, sometimes call). I'm cool with calling with T9, unlikely to be dominated.
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

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If we had an infinite amount of time and didn't have to worry about being blinded out, would it be better to bin all the suited one-gappers etc and just play premium hands?

Or do we just play these junk hands because we're bored?
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

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If we had an infinite amount of time and didn't have to worry about being blinded out, would it be better to bin all the suited one-gappers etc and just play premium hands?

Or do we just play these junk hands because we're bored?

All I know is with stacks this deep, and good post-flop play, having position counts for a whole lot
 
tenbob

tenbob

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Yer I remember this conversation from the last night. Your post flop play is more important than your pre-flop play in situations like yove described above. Calling ranges should be A-x suited, all connectors, all gapped suited connectors, all pairs. I would be cautious that these hands would be only playable if the pots begins to swell once you hit 2 pair+ hands and mosteer combo draws.

What if I said that wasnt my calling requirements playing deepstacked, but my raising requirements;)
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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If we had an infinite amount of time and didn't have to worry about being blinded out, would it be better to bin all the suited one-gappers etc and just play premium hands?

Or do we just play these junk hands because we're bored?

I see your point, but we miss out on a lot of stacking possibilities. Against stronger players like TB, it's also much harder to stack him PF if he's holding QQ or some premium that's not quite AIPF material, but that your average player would stack with. Sure we'll win some sizeable pots, but we'll rarely get stacked unless it's like an AA vs KK situation.

This is why I like playing the implied odds hands because you pretty much can't stack a player like TB without hitting some really disguised hand. Even then, these types of players know not to spew too many chips out post-flop, and they need to have a really strong hand in order for them to pay you off.

If we did have infinite time on our hands, sure we could just wait for those AA vs KK AIPF hands, but having infinite time is something we'll obv never have. Real world, we need to make the most of every situation possible.
 
NineLions

NineLions

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This is why I like playing the implied odds hands because you pretty much can't stack a player like TB without hitting some really disguised hand.

This is the key, isn't it? Hoping TB has QQ and the flop comes T86 when you're holding 97 and he doesn't expect you to be playing that hand calling his raise. Almost any other flop and you just throw it away.
 
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