Calling all top players!!! Allsopp, ChuckT, .....

Ronaldadio

Ronaldadio

Legend
Hi guys.

I posted this simialr idea a few days ago and some of the guys did respond to the first part of my question "favourite none premium starting hands"

I know a lot of you guys will play, from time to time, any 2 cards (Allsopp gave us all a very good reasoning as to why he does it in one of my past posts, thanks for the Allsopp!!!)

I play tight, but not too tight. Where I suffer is I start to panic when my chip stack goes down in MTT - that is a different story.

So, I would like your advice on what you think of this idea.

If I picked any 2 cards preflop, say 84 suited or not, and played or raised with it all of the time, regardless of position, would that be a way of knocking people??? What I`m thinking here is, if I win the pot by catching the flop they would all think I was mad, if the pot went to showdown win or loose, they would all think I was mad. I could also show if everyone if I bluffed them all out of the pot.

Now I mean to play only those 2 cards(the two cards could be any two cards - but it would be those two cards only) the rest of the time I would play premium or near premium. Does this make sense :confused:

My reasoning behind this is that due to my style of play and lack of experience, if I try to do what Allsopp does unless I hit it would backfire. The way I`m explaining means that I am picking my times to push with nothing, so I won`t be doing this much.

If this does not make any sense let me know and I will try to explain!!!

Ronaldadio
 
M

myxiplx

Rock Star
I've considered doing exactly the same thing, but I think in an actual game it depends hugely on your opponent as to whether it's likely to work.

If you wanted to do this I would maybe pick two or three hands that you'll consider doing this with, and when they land decide if you're going to push them based on your read of the table.

More than once I've won a big pot by having the confidence to place my entire stack on the line on a stone cold bluff, but you have to know your opponent is willing to let a potentially large pot go.

Any further advice I'll leave to the more experienced players.

Myx
 
bubbasbestbabe

bubbasbestbabe

Suckout Queen
Go into detail a little bit more. I will sometimes make a nice raise MP or later PF with 6 7 suited if all have folded to me. Then if I get a caller I will hit it hard on the flop. Most times you will pick up a nice little pot.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
Now I mean to play only those 2 cards(the two cards could be any two cards - but it would be those two cards only) the rest of the time I would play premium or near premium. Does this make sense :confused:

Not really. When you raise with nothing hands you should be doing it for an actual reason relating to the tournament situation and the players who have acted and are to act. Saying "if I get dealt 93 suited I'm gonna play it like Aces" is just daft simply because there's no actual logic that relates to the game situation behind raising with 93 suited preflop when you get it.

I might raise with 93 suited because I'm in the cutoff with a big stack, it's folded to me, the button and small blind are weak and the big blind has just won a pot and so is from a psychological perspective more likely to fold. I might raise from the big blind with 93 suited because the only other player in the pot is an MP limper who routinely limp-folds. I'm not going to raise with 93 suited 'because it's 93 suited and it's my raising hand', however, as there's no logical reasoning behind making that decision.
 
Ronaldadio

Ronaldadio

Legend
Thanks for that DM

Valid point. In the situation you described, what would u do if one of the blinds reraised u. Say u raised 3 times bb and he reraise 6 times. I know it would depend on a lot of things, but in general?
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
With 93s? If I'm raising because I think I'm raising into weak players but then I do get reraised it's a pretty standard fold. The more I think they are likely to fold to my raise, the more I have to respect them when they don't. There's no need to get involved with crap hands - either villain has got a big hand, if so he's lucky he got it, or he's read our steal attempt, if so well played him - let him have the pot.

With huge respective stacks I'll call and play the implied odds though, of course, but I get the impression you're not talking about very deepstacked situations here.
 
JimboJim

JimboJim

Legend
Q-10 is my donk buster hand. I'll call a known donks all-in with that. I usually do it in freerolls or the penny tables though. I rarely use them in anything important unless I think they are bluffing.
 
Irexes

Irexes

Legend
Same as Dorkus' post really...

Context is everything in poker and it can mean that you fold AKs or that you play 75o.

Rather than looking to play more hands based on the cards look to play more hands based on the situation.

Are the players in the blinds tight?
What's your position?
What's your table image?
What's the current mindset of the table? and of individuals?
Do you have implied odds to based on stacks to call a raise?
Are the blinds sufficient yo just take them and be happy?
If shortstacked are you pot committed if you bet anything at all and therefore should push?

There's dozens of reasons to play more than just decent starting hands, arbitrarily playing a chosen lower value hand is probably not one of them.

That said there's a number of pros who advocate making random changes in how you play certain situations, for example raising more or less than "optimum" with two black aces or when the second hand on your watch is in a certain segment of the dial.
 
JimboJim

JimboJim

Legend
I cant remember where I read the article but it said even if you fold, still try to guess your oppoents cards and try to outplay them in your head. You'll become more confident in your decisions and get practice reading your opponents.
 
Jack Daniels

Jack Daniels

Charcoal Mellowed
I cant remember where I read the article but it said even if you fold, still try to guess your oppoents cards and try to outplay them in your head. You'll become more confident in your decisions and get practice reading your opponents.
Well this is pretty standard in most poker books. Every pro or seasoned player will tell you that you really need to pay attention to the goings on at the table whether you are in the hand or not.

As to your original post, I basically hear you describing a way of randomizing your play similar in concept to the way Harrington suggests doing it, just you're doing it by cards where Harrington goes by time. For example, he says do something 75% of the time and the other 25% of the time. To sufficiently randomize this and keep your opponents from putting you on any betting pattern, use a watch with a second hand on it. If the current time is within the first 45 seconds of the minute, do the 75% action. If in the last 15 seconds, do the 25% action. He uses this concept multiple times throughout HoH to help understand mixing up your play. All you've done here is suggest that everytime you get particular hand (say 93offsuit), you will raise regardless of position, etc. As long as you can release the hand in the face of a reraise, then what you're suggesting isn't really that far out of line, IMO (assuming I read it all right). And make sure it is only one specific hand, otherwise you start getting into the whole ATC mentality that will hurt you in the long run.
 
Ronaldadio

Ronaldadio

Legend
All you've done here is suggest that everytime you get particular hand (say 93offsuit), you will raise regardless of position, etc. As long as you can release the hand in the face of a reraise, then what you're suggesting isn't really that far out of line, IMO (assuming I read it all right). And make sure it is only one specific hand, otherwise you start getting into the whole ATC mentality that will hurt you in the long run.

ATC = ???

Yep, the idea is that rather than have to make a decision when u hit 64, 92, 58, etc you pick one specific hand that u use - the rest you fold. Obviously you are not going to chance the whole tourny on it, but I mean in the main.
 
Jack Daniels

Jack Daniels

Charcoal Mellowed
ATC = ???

Yep, the idea is that rather than have to make a decision when u hit 64, 92, 58, etc you pick one specific hand that u use - the rest you fold. Obviously you are not going to chance the whole tourny on it, but I mean in the main.

ATC = Any Two Cards.

And yes, your follow-up is exactly what I was getting at. :)
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

plays poker on hard mode
Like Chris said, I don't think you should be picking a hand and deciding to only raise with that hand for the sole reason that you chose it. What if you're UTG with your 93? Do you still want to raise with it? I don't think you should be looking for what hands to raise so much as you should be looking for good situations, specifically relating to your position and the action that has taken place before your turn. Sometimes it's right to raise with 68, and sometimes it's right to fold AJ. I think you're putting too much emphasis on the cards and not enough on the situation.
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

Legend
Harrington says he uses suited connectors as his randomising hands. You're not going to get enough premium hands in a tournament for you to be able to play enough pots to progress at the required rate, especially in middle to late stages - you need to be entering pots and raising with other hands as well.

Harrington's approach makes sense - if you're going to raise with non-premium hands, at least do it with a hand which has some chance of making a strong hand. Much much better to do it with 76s than 93o.
 
Ronaldadio

Ronaldadio

Legend
What if you're UTG with your 93? Do you still want to raise with it?

Yes, I do mean that. Then if u meet with resistance u throw it away, if you don`t hit the flop.

I think I am possibly not putting myself across in the correct way!!!

Sometimes due to bordem I will play a random hand. It will be in late position.

I feel my problem is not in the latter stages of a tourny - if I get to the final table I normal place high (top 3), so picking the right time is not a problem.

My MTT strategy on line is simple. First hour look to double my chip stack. Through to the money I will aim to stay in mid position (100 left I am happy if I am around 40-60th, then 50 left I am happ to be 20-30th, etc) the final table is when u can start to play, IMO.

So, I think my problem comes in the middle part of a tourny where I feel I should loosen up a little. So I am trying to look for a way of doing this that is not massivley complicated. With respect to Harrington, etc, the thought of playing suited connectors, say, when the second hand on my watch is in the final 15 seconds of a min, for example, might be the way for me to go?
 
Jack Daniels

Jack Daniels

Charcoal Mellowed
So, I think my problem comes in the middle part of a tourny where I feel I should loosen up a little. So I am trying to look for a way of doing this that is not massivley complicated. With respect to Harrington, etc, the thought of playing suited connectors, say, when the second hand on my watch is in the final 15 seconds of a min, for example, might be the way for me to go?
I think if you do this, you'll be fine. Yeah, whatever hand you are playing will be -EV in the long run, but the point for you is to help loosen up a little extra in a simple (and undpredictable) way and randomize play along the way. Stick with this and you'll get what you are looking for, just don't allow caveats (e.g. this is close so I'll do it here too).
 
joosebuck

joosebuck

Legend
everything in poker is relative to the situation you are in. everything. saying you should pick a hand like 84 and play it like aces no matter what is like saying you should play aces all the way down no matter what reads you have on everyone & no matter what the board shows.
 
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