been re-reading supersystems 2

stormswa

stormswa

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im bored a lot at work so re-read this book because I want to get better at triple draw 2-7. After I got finished reading that section I moved on to the Omaha section which is what I want to discuss.

I found it extremley interesting that in this book he says a lot of the time you should fold big pairs like KK and sometimes AA preflop. I totally agree with this and have been talking to my friend about it a lot online. Also he says in the book the book that you should fold the nuts sometimes. For instance say you have J89T double suited and flop comes down AKQ with two to a suit you dont hold he says if there is a lot of action he will fold this hand because even though he has the nuts it is very likely someone else holds the same nuts but with a good draw also like the nut flush. He says that he is not that invested and is only going to win 1/2 the pot. So in summery he says fold the nuts sometimes and fold bare aces and kings.

discusss if you like.
 
vanquish

vanquish

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im bored a lot at work so re-read this book because I want to get better at triple draw 2-7. After I got finished reading that section I moved on to the Omaha section which is what I want to discuss.

I found it extremley interesting that in this book he says a lot of the time you should fold big pairs like KK and sometimes AA preflop. I totally agree with this and have been talking to my friend about it a lot online. Also he says in the book the book that you should fold the nuts sometimes. For instance say you have J89T double suited and flop comes down AKQ with two to a suit you dont hold he says if there is a lot of action he will fold this hand because even though he has the nuts it is very likely someone else holds the same nuts but with a good draw also like the nut flush. He says that he is not that invested and is only going to win 1/2 the pot. So in summery he says fold the nuts sometimes and fold bare aces and kings.

discusss if you like.

I agree about folding the nuts. I've done it and will continue to do it in some situations in Omaha.
 
stormswa

stormswa

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I agree about folding the nuts. I've done it and will continue to do it in some situations in Omaha.

its a very very good section, and the triple draw 2-7 is pretty amazing also and its a game im begining to like a lot.
 
blankoblanco

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i fold KK fairly often in omaha, especially if my other cards are no good. it's not a particularly great omaha hand on its own. however i've, as of yet, never folded AA preflop in omaha. maybe if multiple players look very strong preflop and i think there's a good chance one of them has AA, then it might be prudent to fold it? i'm not really sure where else i would. it's very hard to do because you instantly know that you're "ahead" and the chance of a player having the other two aces are very low
 
mrsnake3695

mrsnake3695

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I've been playing alot of Omaha lately and the biggest thing I've noticed is that too many people play way too many hands. Often seeing it capped preflop which is ridiculous since its very rare that a hand is more than a 60% favorite pre-flop. I've also seen people playing med flushes and 2 pair like its the nuts.

Many people think Omaha is a game where you see lots of flops and chase lots of draws when in reallity it should be just the opposite.

Most hands without good scoop potential in high/low should be folded.
 
stormswa

stormswa

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i fold KK fairly often in omaha, especially if my other cards are no good. it's not a particularly great omaha hand on its own. however i've, as of yet, never folded AA preflop in omaha. maybe if multiple players look very strong preflop and i think there's a good chance one of them has AA, then it might be prudent to fold it? i'm not really sure where else i would. it's very hard to do because you instantly know that you're "ahead" and the chance of a player having the other two aces are very low

even if your ahead, a bare ace is not that far ahead of random hand, 6-7-8-9 double suited im sure is not that far behind. I have not run numbers make I should....
 

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blankoblanco

blankoblanco

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well that's what makes it a difficult fold. even if the rest of your AA hand is complete trash and you're not suited at all, one-on-one against the best drawing potential hand possible, you're still getting odds to play it. there will be other chips in the pot from blinds, etc., so being 48%+ to win makes it +EV pretty much always, although it's high variance. so i don't know if it'd ever be absolutely "right" to fold it against only one other player showing strength. against multiple players showing strength, though, i'd imagine it can be right to fold a bad AA
 
jaymfc

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storm ,I agree , even though I have never done it , but I realize the nuts on the flop aren't always the nuts on the river , and I bet according to my position and my chances for a better hand . now I will at least consider folding if the hand doesn't have lots of outs for a better hand and gets a lot of action.

I'm also one of the donks mrsnake talks about and play way to many hands , the blinds are very small and if I can limp in I play 70% of my hands. I also fold to most raises unless I have a very nice hand and I never raise preflop. post flop I also fold most hands if I don't have the nuts or good draw to them. I hate to chase for big bucks and am pushed around alot. people will go all in or raise big if they have the best part of the flop . I realize my game needs alot of work thats why I'm reading this and hope to hear much more from you.
 
vanquish

vanquish

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Sux playing against a table of "play every hand" donks in any Omaha game, cause you pot it PF, still get called by 4 people, and by the time you get to act again, it's already been RRed. :(
 
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Wlokos

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Are you kidding? I love those sorts of donks. You can just chill and wait for a great hand and then win a big pot.
 
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Dashir

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I lost more than half my stack the other day after flopping an A high straight. Two other guys kept raising each other up. One of them also had the straight, but the other was chasing a flush draw. Last card was a Tc giving him his flush, but pairing the board so he lost to the full house. So I was dead no matter what.

I looked at that hand a long time trying to figure out when I was supposed to fold. Until that ten, half the pot was mine. And after the pot gets that big, kind of hard to give it up.
 
jaymfc

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Sux playing against a table of "play every hand" donks in any Omaha game, cause you pot it PF, still get called by 4 people, and by the time you get to act again, it's already been RRed. :(


I fold almost all hands to big raises period , so to me it sux playing at a table full of donks that think they have the nuts preflop , I don't think they have any better chance of winning unless they hit the flop , just like the rag hands.how many times have they had to fold AAKK double suited to a flop of rags with the possible str8 or flush of suit different than their two.

how many times have no one hit and the AA's or kk held up on it's own .

I'm not saying play any hand and I'm not dogging you ,you probably play 10x better than me , I'm saying IMO , pre flop hands are at best a coin toss , after the flop it's a whole new game. I definitely prefer premium hands but with blinds so low I play many different hands ,right or wrong.

bear with me I'm trying to learn better :D
 
jaymfc

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I lost more than half my stack the other day after flopping an A high straight. Two other guys kept raising each other up. One of them also had the straight, but the other was chasing a flush draw. Last card was a Tc giving him his flush, but pairing the board so he lost to the full house. So I was dead no matter what.

I looked at that hand a long time trying to figure out when I was supposed to fold. Until that ten, half the pot was mine. And after the pot gets that big, kind of hard to give it up.


yup seems like a bad beat till we read the op's thread , lucky for us we now learned that it's sometimes better to fold the nut straight when the action gets heavy ,unless it's you that also has the shot at nut flush or full house to go with it . I know I wouldn't have figured that out on my own. :)
 
Panopticon

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I definately think there is money to be made in Omaha due to all the Hold'Em players who overvalue their hands. Even players experienced with calculating pot odds seem to be completely thrown for a loop in a H/L game. It is hard to adjust to doubling the rule of 3 and 2 to 6 and 4 with your draws, and putting opponents on hands becomes much harder than Hold'Em. I think it's a fascinating game, I wish I could find more cash game omaha reading material.

Anyone know of any?
 
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Dragnet

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Sux playing against a table of "play every hand" donks in any Omaha game, cause you pot it PF, still get called by 4 people, and by the time you get to act again, it's already been RRed. :(

True but I've read somewhere that there is less of a 'schooling' effect in Omaha though. In a really loose Hold'em game you have or almost have the odds to call with hands like 85o if its limp city. Ah found quote:

Weak Holdem players can "school" together and get pot odds on their poor draws and therefore not be playing all that bad. On the other hand, there is no parallel schooling phenomenon in Omaha where very often five players draw stone cold dead while two players have all the outs between them (for example, on the turn the nut flush and the top set are the only live hands, and five other players with two pairs and baby flushes are drawing dead).
Also:
If a weak player is taking the 40/60 worst of it in Holdem many times, that player is taking the worst of it fewer times against Omaha opponents but the worst of it now is more likely to be 10/90.
So not so bad maybe :)
 
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