Ace Ragz - let me know if you agree

[icemonkey9]

Thanks for your strategy ... hopefully you won't mind a little counterpoint to your post.

This means if you don’t get Aces up (two pair) or a flush (when you rag is same suit) then you’ll probably be out kicked by the other player.

Actually the chances of this are kinda remote. However a top pair weak kicker type of hand to the river is rarely good in a typical hand of Hold'em.

1) Position – Only limp in on lower limit blinds if you’re in early position and if you’re raised too high then fold ... If you’re in early position and the blinds are high I always fold.

I guess we're talking tournament strategy then? I don't remember you posting whether this was a universal theory or just for cash/tournament play. Anyways, I disagree with this for either. A good player in late position will simply isolate-raise you, cbet the flop, and win your money. Fold your ace-rag from EP 100% of the time.

In late position call or raise depends on the number of previous callers and their betting habits. If there is one tight caller or raiser then just call, but if a few loose players call or raise, then raise.

In late position such as the button or cutoff, you should be stealing with Ace-anything darn near everytime. Like 99% of the time in a cash game especially. Limp/Calling with Ax offsuit anytime ever is just a bad idea. There are some very remote exceptions.

Suit – If your Ace Ragz cards are suited then you have a few more options. If the blinds are low then you should most likely limp in early.

Again I respectfully disagree. Same reason above.

If you’re raised by someone later on in the game, whether you stay in depends on the player that raised. Fold if he’s tight and call if he’s loose and raise if there are two or more loose ones calling. Either they’ll call you with krap or they’ll fold, either way you would tend to fair better against them because not only do you have an Ace you have the potential to pop a flush too.

I think either way you're basically flush-mining and that's a terrible idea. The odds of flopping just a flush draw are 1 in 11 roughly. The odds of flopping a flush are less than 1%. How is this a good idea? With more people in the hand the less likely your Ax hand will be good for top pair even. Again, I respectfully disagree.

 

[silverslugger33]

This is incorrect. If you have A6 or better, there is more chance that somebody will NOT have an ace with a higher kicker. With A6 ten handed, the probability that someone will have an ace with a higher kicker is less than 48.5%. In 9 handed, which is usually a full table online, with A5, the chances that someone has an ace with a higher kicker is 49%. If you have A9, nine handed, there is less than 29% chance that somebody has an ace with a higher kicker.

Your math is right, but that doesn't make it a profitable play. Your implied odds with Arag are horrible. If you hit your ace and your pair with a weak kicker is good, you probably won't win much anyway, because any hand you are beating has mid pair at best. Therefore, they won't bet much or call much anyway.

 

[GDRileyx]

You might be surprised at how often A7, A8 or A9 stacks somebody with a smaller ace who is trying to represent a better hand. Especially in live cards. A lot of donkeys have trouble laying down an ace preflop, and even more trouble laying down if one or two aces hit the board.

This doesn't even mention the payoff you get from AK or AQ, on a flop like A79, when you played A7 or A9.

I hardly ever play A6 and lower, but those three middle-size aces (A7-A9) are severely underestimated. I think it's a big mistake to lump them in with other hands in the category of ace-rag.

I'm not saying to play them in pots that are raised preflop, or even to limp with them in early position. But, in late position they are very playable. They can pay off big, and they are real easy to get away from when they miss the flop, or get raised behind.

 

[orangepeeleo]

What icemonkey said is spot on imo

In early position i'm only playing AQ+ and thats pushing it, i sometimes even throw away AQ utg, because i absolutely hate playing it out of position, suppose you raise to 4bb's utg and a regular 15/10 player 3bets you, what do you do there, 4bettings a bit crazy because your then starting to play for stacks with AQ, you could already be behind to AK for all you know?? Say you flat call and the flop comes Q high are you really going to be comfortable getting it all in with tptk?? It might be too nitty but i think AQ can give you a lot of problems in a hand and as with all the other ace rag hands against good players your either going to win a small pot or lose a big one.

I'm surprised that nobody's mentioned A10 here as that was a hand i had a lot of problems with when i was first starting out, you kinda get the feeling its a good hand because you don't instantly class it as ace rag but i've changed how i play it completely, in ep i insta-fold it, mp i might stick out a raise but if i get any resistance i'm chucking it, in lp if a couple of fish have limped in ep then i might put out a raise to isolate them or even just take down the dead money, depending on how the blinds play.

Tournament strategy is different but now that ive moved to cash games i'm very wary when playing even AK or AQ, they just have a tendency to hit tptk or tpgk and i see a lot of players playing for big pots with those hands when a lot of experienced guys will tell you your better off not playing for stacks without at least a set.

I still play them aggressively and obviously dont mind getting them lol but if i meet any strong resistance then i'm still at the stage where i'm finding it hard to fold tptk so it's best for me to avoid them.

Just my 2c's worth

 

[widowmaker89]

A lot of people are over valuing position right now. Playing Arag doesn't have much to do with position. The issue with the hand is that you have to make tons of tough decisions, because you are often out kicked. Even in position, you are going to be frequently out kicked, and even if someone bets into you, it's very hard to get away from the hand if an ace hits the board. With regards to Arag, position doesn't really mean much.

Position is more important than your cards, so yeah it matters. button or CO should be nearly always a raise if folded to. With Arag there are many less combinations of 3bet hands since an A is gone so in that sense its better than others to raise.

Big problem with Arag is that if you hit your ace most people wont pay you off with worse so its hard to get money unless you get 2 pair plus. But on the button its a good hand to steal with.

These are easy folds in EP however, again, people dont put much money in the pot of an A high board if they cant beat Arag and you cant really call a raise OOP with it.

 

[three3y3]

FOLD DEM ACE RAGS

I DONT KNOW ABOUT U GUYS BUT I HAVE FOUND I PRESSERVE MORE CHIPS DURING A TOURNEY ESPECIALLY 1000 PLUS ENTRANT MTT BY FOLDING THE MAJORITY OF MY ACES I EVEN FOLD ACE JACK AND ACE TEN ALOT OF THE TIME ESPECIALLY IF THERE IS A RAISER IN FRONT OF ME. ....IVE BEEN DOIN BETTER BY DOIN THIS I HAVE BEEN CASHING MORE OFTEN IN THE FT 2700 100 DOLLAR FR'S....SCINCE IVE BEEN DOIN THIS

 

[silverslugger33]

Position is more important than your cards, so yeah it matters. button or CO should be nearly always a raise if folded to. With Arag there are many less combinations of 3bet hands since an A is gone so in that sense its better than others to raise.

Big problem with Arag is that if you hit your ace most people wont pay you off with worse so its hard to get money unless you get 2 pair plus. But on the button its a good hand to steal with.

These are easy folds in EP however, again, people dont put much money in the pot of an A high board if they cant beat Arag and you cant really call a raise OOP with it.

I generally completely agree about position (to the extent that I'll play hands like 68 from the button if there's no raise), but IMO this is the exception. Arag is a hand that is easily and often dominated. If an ace hits, it's very hard to get someone off of a better ace than yours, and if it doesn't hit then you don't really have a hand. Regardless of position, Arag is a hand where you stand little to gain and a lot to lose, so you're better off folding it at a full table. If you're short handed, then maybe you can play it because people in general will play looser, but at a full table, unless the table is very tight, I'd just fold it regardless of position or suit.

 

[markpro]

You mentioned that you only call in early when the blinds are low, but that is usually irrelevant. When you play a hand when the blinds are lower, you either win lower or lose lower, and when the blinds are higher you either win higher or lose higher, so statistically you would be winning or losing to the same ratio in relation to the size of the blinds. Ofcourse if you have 500 chips and the blinds are 300 150 you dont have much of a choice and this might be your only chance back so in those cases the call would be acceptable. About the suited Arag... that is the usuall bad excuse for many poker players: "ohh i was playing that hand cause it was suited!!".. the suits only give a small upgrade to your hand, and it should not be the soul purpose of a call instead of a fold.
So anyway good luck and have a good day at the tables .